Howie vs Gia

[Guest]

I like WPA -- I just don't know how good a statistic it really is..  and by that I simply mean I've never looked at it deeply enough to see if it favors guys in certain spots of the order or not.  There are other questions for me too -- like, how much more credit does it give a guy getting a hit that drives in a run as opposed to a the guy that got on base to score?  I just don't know how it works enough to take it over a larger sample size albeit less specialized stat.

 

Mostly, Im just arguing that as a whole, HK was amazingly, boringly, consistent...

 

It's not really that valuable of a stat in terms of quantifying trade value or predicting how well a player will do in the future, but it does correlate closely with the "eyeball test" or what people seem to remember from watching a game. 

[HaloMagic]

There was a game against Texas a couple years ago where the Angels scored like 7 runs in the 9th mounting a huge comeback and Howie came up with the tying run at 3rd. He proceeds to hit the weakest ground ball to the 2nd baseman and ends the game just short of an epic comeback that would have been a top Angels moment. Felt like that was exactly how every Kendrick story ends

September 11th, 2012. We went into the bottom of the 9th in a game against the A's down 6-3. They brought in Grant Balfour who proceeded to meltdown epically. No outs, two runs in and the tying run standing at third they take out Balfour and bring in Blevins. Kendrys strikes out for the first out. Kendrick is up. I'm just praying that he strikes out. But he doesn't. This piece of shit reaches for a pitch on the outer half and gives it the old Pujols special, trying to pull it instead of going with the pitch. Hits a 2 hopper right to Donaldson and the A's turn the easy double play to win the game.

Never liked him after that.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I have five words for you:

Six Years of Andrew Heaney.

that would make a good campaign buutton

[Mark68]

that would make a good campaign buutton

Sure, when he runs for Senate after his baseball career is over.

[Ocangelfan]

LOL  with a shart

[WallyWorld]

Yeah but no. The Angels traded Kendrick for 6 years of Heaney and only Heaney.

 

Giavotella came by trade of 28 year old career minor leaguer Brian Broderick. He came via free agency in November and was flipped to the Royals 3 weeks later for Giavotella who was brought in with a score of 2nd baseman to try and fill that gap.

I'm aware that the trade was Kendrick for Heaney. The point is that trading Howie away left a void at 2B that is being filled - pretty damn well - by Gia. That's the whole point of this thread. But people want to ignore that and just squabble about Gia's stats not being quite as good as Howie's. 

[Guest]

September 11th, 2012. We went into the bottom of the 9th in a game against the A's down 6-3. They brought in Grant Balfour who proceeded to meltdown epically. No outs, two runs in and the tying run standing at third they take out Balfour and bring in Blevins. Kendrys strikes out for the first out. Kendrick is up. I'm just praying that he strikes out. But he doesn't. This piece of shit reaches for a pitch on the outer half and gives it the old Pujols special, trying to pull it instead of going with the pitch. Hits a 2 hopper right to Donaldson and the A's turn the easy double play to win the game.

Never liked him after that.

This was what I based by -0.7 WPA example on in my earlier post.

[Erstad Grit]

Hk is better. However the gap is not remotely as wide as we thought it would be. That tiny gap is well worth heaney on the cheap.

[CaliAngel]

September 11th, 2012. We went into the bottom of the 9th in a game against the A's down 6-3. They brought in Grant Balfour who proceeded to meltdown epically. No outs, two runs in and the tying run standing at third they take out Balfour and bring in Blevins. Kendrys strikes out for the first out. Kendrick is up. I'm just praying that he strikes out. But he doesn't. This piece of shit reaches for a pitch on the outer half and gives it the old Pujols special, trying to pull it instead of going with the pitch. Hits a 2 hopper right to Donaldson and the A's turn the easy double play to win the game.

Never liked him after that.

After the game did you hang where the players walk out and yell "Nice game pretty boy!" cause it sounds like your day was ruined.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I like WPA -- I just don't know how good a statistic it really is..  and by that I simply mean I've never looked at it deeply enough to see if it favors guys in certain spots of the order or not.  There are other questions for me too -- like, how much more credit does it give a guy getting a hit that drives in a run as opposed to a the guy that got on base to score?  I just don't know how it works enough to take it over a larger sample size albeit less specialized stat.

 

Mostly, Im just arguing that as a whole, HK was amazingly, boringly, consistent...

 

WPA is "the narrative" it measures how people feel when they watch the game. The guy who hits the homerun in the first inning will always be rated below the guy who hits the homerun in the 8th.

[AngelsLakersFan]

This was what I based by -0.7 WPA example on in my earlier post.

 

In the example you gave the WPA would be closer to ~ <-.5 ... no way the odds were in the Angels favor to win there.

[Inside Pitch]

WPA is "the narrative" it measures how people feel when they watch the game. The guy who hits the homerun in the first inning will always be rated below the guy who hits the homerun in the 8th.

 

Yeah, I get that -- I just don't know how much stock to put into the stat.   A guy that hits a HR to start an inning when down by 4 to start a rally gets less props than the guy who ties the game later in that inning, or a guy that puts the team ahead.   Seems like it's a statistic that can be pretty heavily influence by things like spot in the lineup and opportunities.  It's an interesting stat, just not sure of it's real merit.  WPA was always the go to stat for Howie criticism.  I really do need to give it a closer look.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Jay]

Rank	Player	Double Plays Grounded Into	PA
1	Garret Anderson	180	8480
2	Brian Downing	152	6912
3	Howie Kendrick	127	4419
4	Vladimir Guerrero	113	3606
5	Chili Davis	108	4031
	Bobby Grich	108	4876
7	Gary Disarcina	105	4032
8	Tim Salmon	98	7039
9	Jim Fregosi	94	5945
	Bengie Molina	94	2679

 

[Inside Pitch]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ANA/leaders_bat.shtml

[Blarg]

That just goes to show how really Damn good Jim Fregosi was.

Edited June 25, 2015 by notti

[Dick B Back]

That just goes to show how really Damn good Jim Fregosi was.

And how slow Bengie was.

[Slegnaac]

After the game did you hang where the players walk out and yell "Nice game pretty boy!" cause it sounds like your day was ruined.

You gotta watch out for those magic lugies.