Punishing the teams with PED users

[nate]

Again, complicity doesn't matter.  In a game where all that matters is wins and losses, they benefited unfairly.

 

How is the fine so bad?  If the player went on the DL they would be paying for him without having him on the roster.

[Lifetime]

Yes it is. If they've been caught once then they can't get caught again without the team being penalized. If they don't get caught again then no worries. You're welcome for the explanation

Thanks for addressing the issues I brought up in rebuttal. Good discussion. 

[OregonLAA]

Thanks for addressing the issues I brought up in rebuttal. Good discussion.

I agree and am happy I won this argument. Good day, sir

[Lifetime]

 Again, complicity doesn't matter.  In a game where all that matters is wins and losses, they benefited unfairly.

 

How is the fine so bad?  If the player went on the DL they would be paying for him without having him on the roster.

Again, yes it does. 

 

Oh, and if a player goes on an extended DA trip, insurance covers the salary. 

[Lifetime]

I agree and am happy I won this argument. Good day, sir

Winning! 

[katie]

You know what's winning? Putting bacon on s'mores. Why didnt I think of it.

[nate]

Again, yes it does. 

 

Oh, and if a player goes on an extended DA trip, insurance covers the salary. 

 

Only if the players contract is insured.

[nate]

You know what's winning? Putting bacon on s'mores. Why didnt I think of it.

 

Best contribution in this whole thread.

[Lifetime]

Only if the players contract is insured.

And most if not all big contracts are. 

[Mark68]

Again, complicity doesn't matter.  In a game where all that matters is wins and losses, they benefited unfairly.

 

How is the fine so bad?  If the player went on the DL they would be paying for him without having him on the roster.

How do you quantify the benefit that Player PED had for that team?

[nate]

How do you quantify the benefit that Player PED had for that team?

 

Why is that necessary?

[Mark68]

Why is that necessary?

You don't, if you're going to have the same exact penalty for each team that has a player busted.

 

I fail to see how penalizing teams will actually solve anything.

[nate]

???

 

Because every team will have a player making exactly the same amount of money get caught with PEDs?

 

If we need to find out some special formula to determine the value gained then why don't we do it now instead of just blanket suspensions of 50 100, etc?

[mp170.6]

Why do I have this feeling nate's logic will change 180 degrees if an Angel gets suspended in the next couple days?

[nate]

See my previous response.

[Angels Never Die]

What a moronic idea.

[Mark68]

Nobody has said anything to convince me that fining or otherwise penalizing teams will actually solve the PED problem.

 

To me, it would send us back to the late 90s/early 00s, where teams would do anything in their power to keep their players from being caught...supplying masking agents, etc.

 

But the bottom line is this: you cannot penalize teams for violating rules that they are not complicit in violating. It makes absolutely no sense to do so. And if it doesn't actually solve the problem that you're trying to address, it is a nonsensical penalty.

 

Penalizing teams also has the additional problem of penalizing a team's fanbase. And it is a power that can potentially be abused (say the next Commissioner is a closet Red Sox fan and he wants to penalize the Yankees).

[nate]

I see your point but I disagree.  I don't think that breaking the rules should be the only basis for punishment.  The fact that the team benefited from cheating is enough for me.

 

As for your last sentence, there are many ways that could happen, some new rule wouldn't change that.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Obviously changing win / loss records is stupid, but lets get real about the teams for one minute. The teams and MLB itself are solely responsible for the actions of their players. They personally created a culture of PED use by rewarding users with big contracts. Don't try and tell me that no one knew - EVERYONE KNEW. The fact that MLB is putting this all on the players and attempting to destroy careers to uphold their own image in the eye of the public is absolute hypocrisy.

[katie]

What a moronic idea.

Leaving bacon off s'mores? Yeah, I agree.

[Mark68]

Obviously changing win / loss records is stupid, but lets get real about the teams for one minute. The teams and MLB itself are solely responsible for the actions of their players. They personally created a culture of PED use by rewarding users with big contracts. Don't try and tell me that no one knew - EVERYONE KNEW. The fact that MLB is putting this all on the players and attempting to destroy careers to uphold their own image in the eye of the public is absolute hypocrisy.

Nobody is saying that they didn't. And I can see why they would, after the strike and the cancelling of the World Series in 1994, baseball needed something to get the fans back. And everyone (not just chicks) digs the long ball. But once MLB recognized is as a problem (certainly with the help of Congress threatening to yank their anti-trust exemption), they were quick to do something about it. And there really has been a change in philosophy among the players, and by extension, the MLBPA, to try to rid the sport of PEDs. So, because teams and the sport were complicit in the past does not automatically mean that they continue to be.

[Amazing Larry]

How do you quantify the benefit that Player PED had for that team?

If the player is a catcher it's easy.

CERA

[Lifetime]

Obviously changing win / loss records is stupid, but lets get real about the teams for one minute. The teams and MLB itself are solely responsible for the actions of their players. They personally created a culture of PED use by rewarding users with big contracts. Don't try and tell me that no one knew - EVERYONE KNEW. The fact that MLB is putting this all on the players and attempting to destroy careers to uphold their own image in the eye of the public is absolute hypocrisy.

No question at one time MLB, owners and coaches were implicit in the widespread use of PED's, in some cases even facilitating it. But those days are long gone. For the last several years, MLB, owners and even more recently MLBPA have been working toward ridding PED's from the game. We're not talking about busting players who were using during the look the other way era. But hey, if it can be shown that a team or the league was in any way complicit or even negligent regarding PED use, they should be fined or somehow penalized. Outside of that, it's ridiculous to fine or penalize teams because a player who is on their roster violates the PED rules. It's not hypocrisy. It couldn't be ignored. They had to do something to clean it up. Players and teams have been on notice for a while now and penalties have gotten stiffer. Players are well aware of the risks they are taking if they take PED's now. So where's the hypocrisy? Enforcing the rules instead of continuing to be enablers? This is no witch hunt. MLB isn't attempting to destroy careers. The onus for that falls on the players who continue to break the rules. They  make that choice and they know the consequences. 

[stormngt]

Again, you can't hold them accountable for an action that ultimately benefits them when they had not participation or effect on that action. You can't "punish"  the team for something they did not do. 

 

You obviously do not follow college sports and the NCAA!

[stormngt]

Colon hasn't been caught again. There is no evidence he is cheating this season.

 

 

Except for the fact that he is having the best year of his career at the age of 43!

 

There are laws of nature!  One of them is that you lose strength, muscle, and ability as you age!