The Angels and Cody Bellinger

[CartiHalos]

A couple of days ago, Anthony Franco with MLB Trade Rumors wrote a piece on remaining fits for Cody Bellinger.  He had 3 categories of teams: Likeliest Fits, Longer Shots, and Payroll Questions.  Among the likeliest fits were the Cubs, the Blue Jays, and your Los Angeles Angels.

The 'Longer Shots' were Mets, Nats, and Phils, and the 'Payroll Questions' include the Padres and our divisional pals the Mariners and Rangers.

Keep in mind this, as far as I can tell, is nothing to do with his actual market or team interest, simply based on the fit of the player.

Franco mentions that it's hard to tell how aggressive the Angels will be in terms of spending. After missing on Ohtani, they have a decision to make on where to go - as it stands, despite a slightly bolstered bullpen and some minor league acquisitions, we have a 73 win team that just lost a .304/.412/.654 hitter and a near Cy Young pitcher.

He mentions "Bellinger would give the Angels an option to cover center field if Mike Trout needs any time on the injured list" and that Bellinger is "also a marquee name who starred in LA, which could appeal to owner Arte Moreno."

I'm of 2 minds about signing him. My primary worry is the $$$ behind the deal. It's been reported he's seeking upwards of $200M and has been projected to make between $25M and $30M AAV. I think this price is too steep, especially if we're still pushing for one of the upper end starters like Snell or Imanaga.

On the other hand, I think purely from a roster building standpoint, having Bellinger could be a great thing.  He's a polarizing player, but I'm in the camp that his 2023 was a resurgence, not just lucky streak.  He plays great defense at all 3 outfield positions and first base if needed, and his offensive upside is maybe one of the only available players that could even fill 80% of the Ohtani void.  I don't think he's a catch all fix, but I'm big on his abilities so if the money is right, I'd be in favor of a deal. Priority should still be pitching though in my opinion.

So how does everyone else feel? Is it a good fit? Do you think Bellinger will have sustained success?  Is it not even worth arguing because he'll inevitably end up in Chicago or Toronto (Probably)?  

[mmc]

Not interested whatsoever

[CaliAngel]

[T.G.]

I will trust some of the better baseball minds on this site who aren't in favor of signing Bellinger.  Everything I've read seems to indicate he's very high risk.  The Angels can't afford that.

[Chuck]

If Bellinger was in the 125-150 million range I would take a shot on him, but there's too much risk to have him resort to his 2020-2022 swing and approach I believe. 

He is a very good defensive player in the outfield and 1B though. 

[Chuck]

Just now, Chuck said:

If Bellinger was in the 125-150 million range I would take a shot on him, but there's too much risk to have him resort to his 2020-2022 swing and approach I believe. 

He is a very good defensive player in the outfield and 1B though. 

Maybe if the Angels could structure a heavily incentive type deal that if he played in x amount of games and hit 25 HR, 90+ RBI and posted an OPS of .850 or above he would get an addition 5-10 million a year or something. But the hell with these 200+ million dollar guaranteed contracts anymore unless it's for a proven guy that's a beacon of health. 

[CartiHalos]

2 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Maybe if the Angels could structure a heavily incentive type deal that if he played in x amount of games and hit 25 HR, 90+ RBI and posted an OPS of .850 or above he would get an addition 5-10 million a year or something. But the hell with these 200+ million dollar guaranteed contracts anymore unless it's for a proven guy that's a beacon of health. 

Definitely. I could see giving him a big contract ending up very Rendon-Esque.

[jsnpritchett]

12 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Maybe if the Angels could structure a heavily incentive type deal that if he played in x amount of games and hit 25 HR, 90+ RBI and posted an OPS of .850 or above he would get an addition 5-10 million a year or something. But the hell with these 200+ million dollar guaranteed contracts anymore unless it's for a proven guy that's a beacon of health. 

You can't give incentives tied to specific stats in MLB.  You can tie it to games played/pitched or awards voting, but not specific stats.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/incentive-clause

"Incentive Clause

Definition

Incentives in contracts allow players to earn additional money by achieving certain predetermined benchmarks. Major League Baseball's Basic Agreement prohibits incentives from being awarded based on statistical achievement. Thus, playing time is the near-universal means by which players receive incentives. Pitchers with incentive-laden contracts typically trigger the incentives based on number of innings pitched, number of games started, number of relief appearances, number of games finished, etc. Hitters will most commonly trigger incentives based on plate appearances. Some contracts also contain roster bonuses, which reward a player simply for staying on the active roster for a certain number of days.

In the 2011 wave of collective bargaining agreement negotiations, milestone bonuses were prohibited by the league, meaning that players can no longer receive contractual bonuses for reaching plateaus such as their 3,000th hit, 500th home run, 200th win, etc.

Example

In the 2015-16 offseason, the Astros signed Doug Fister to a one-year contract with a $7 million guarantee. His contract contained up to $5 million worth of incentives, allowing him to earn a maximum of $12 million for the 2016 season."

[Erstad Grit]

I'm willing to look a bit foolish.

I want Bellinger, as long as it wouldn't limit us from acquiring a top SP. 

He plays top notch CF defense which is very valuable, and Trout needs to shift IMO.

He's still fairly young and we have his hitting coach that seemed to unlock something.

Yes he was awful, like worst in MLB bad, but he also was MVP before that. 

7/180 looks like a bargain next to Rendon. 

Also nothing I'd love more than Bellinger outhitting Ohtani. That would be unlikely, but so much fun. 

 

[notherhalo]

Signing Bellinger would be such an Angels move

[CartiHalos]

10 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I'm willing to look a bit foolish.

I want Bellinger, as long as it wouldn't limit us from acquiring a top SP. 

He plays top notch CF defense which is very valuable, and Trout needs to shift IMO.

He's still fairly young and we have his hitting coach that seemed to unlock something.

Yes he was awful, like worst in MLB bad, but he also was MVP before that. 

7/180 looks like a bargain next to Rendon. 

Also nothing I'd love more than Bellinger outhitting Ohtani. That would be unlikely, but so much fun. 

 

This is remarkably similar to how I feel. I think if it goes more than $180M I'm out, but I like to gamble.

[HBAngel13]

I would be much more interested to see what Jo Adell is capable of over a full season for the MLB minimum than making a $200m commitment to Bellinger.  .240 and 25HR from Adell seems like a possibility with a full season of ABs

Im in the camp that we aren’t competing in 2024 save for an unprecedented streak of good health, career years and home run FA signings. As such, let Adell, Moniak and Ward play it out. See what you have and look to improve the OF in 2025 if the need still exists.  All those guys have the potential to be average to above average regulars. Give them a chance… there is nothing to lose at this point. 

[Angels 1961]

I was a yes yesterday but convinced against this move. NO, save money till 2025. 

[3pitchwalk]

hes gonna suck ass.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

You can't give incentives tied to specific stats in MLB.  You can tie it to games played/pitched or awards voting, but not specific stats.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/incentive-clause

"Incentive Clause

Definition

Incentives in contracts allow players to earn additional money by achieving certain predetermined benchmarks. Major League Baseball's Basic Agreement prohibits incentives from being awarded based on statistical achievement. Thus, playing time is the near-universal means by which players receive incentives. Pitchers with incentive-laden contracts typically trigger the incentives based on number of innings pitched, number of games started, number of relief appearances, number of games finished, etc. Hitters will most commonly trigger incentives based on plate appearances. Some contracts also contain roster bonuses, which reward a player simply for staying on the active roster for a certain number of days.

In the 2011 wave of collective bargaining agreement negotiations, milestone bonuses were prohibited by the league, meaning that players can no longer receive contractual bonuses for reaching plateaus such as their 3,000th hit, 500th home run, 200th win, etc.

Example

In the 2015-16 offseason, the Astros signed Doug Fister to a one-year contract with a $7 million guarantee. His contract contained up to $5 million worth of incentives, allowing him to earn a maximum of $12 million for the 2016 season."

Did not know this. Thank you for the clarification. 

 

[Dgar24]

43 minutes ago, HBAngel13 said:

I would be much more interested to see what Jo Adell is capable of over a full season for the MLB minimum than making a $200m commitment to Bellinger.  .240 and 25HR from Adell seems like a possibility with a full season of ABs

Im in the camp that we aren’t competing in 2024 save for an unprecedented streak of good health, career years and home run FA signings. As such, let Adell, Moniak and Ward play it out. See what you have and look to improve the OF in 2025 if the need still exists.  All those guys have the potential to be average to above average regulars. Give them a chance… there is nothing to lose at this point. 

Agree with this .

Any money spent on high risk needs to be pitching ! You can get old guys Turner or Martinez for example to produce runs. their track records are stable also way less financial burden if they don’t produce.

I know Snell is risky, so what all ball players are risky. 2 Cy young’s 6 inning pitcher, almost  all are now.  I’ll take him and more bullpen help. 
 

 

 

[TroutField]

There is not free agent or trade that is going to turn this roster into a good one this off season. 
 

we are probably a 75 win team as it stand now and that’s about where it will stay. We will make some dumb moves that don’t pan out and if we are lucky maybe stay in the race until August before settling for 80 wins and missing the playoffs. 
 

we shit the bed with Ohtani and any top free agent coming from Japan wouldn’t even think about the angels, so Yamamoto is a no go and if Snell even considers us, he will immediately become injured or suck. It is what it is, angels baseball for the past 15 years baby.  

[CartiHalos]

5 minutes ago, Dgar24 said:

Agree with this .

Any money spent on high risk needs to be pitching ! You can get old guys Turner or Martinez for example to produce runs. their track records are stable also way less financial burden if they don’t produce.

I know Snell is risky, so what all ball players are risky. 2 Cy young’s 6 inning pitcher, almost  all are now.  I’ll take him and more bullpen help. 
 

 

 

I want Snell big time. Pitching as a market is just risky, and Snell is more consistent than his year-by-year ERA shows (peripheral wise). 

I'm a believer in the 3 S's: Snell, Stephenson, and Soler.  I think those 3 (among other pickups obviously) bring good value but keep us financially flexible down the line.

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, HBAngel13 said:

 

I would be much more interested to see what Jo Adell is capable of over a full season for the MLB minimum than making a $200m commitment to Bellinger

 

Well, if I signed Bellinger, Adell plays every day and Ward is traded for pitching with Moniak the 4th OF or the starter if Bellinger gets a start at 1B.

So I don’t view it as a choice between Bellinger and Adell.  I view it as securing a player to free up a cost-controlled body to help trade for pitching. 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dtwncbad

[jeskola]

I say sign him, because he was in an Assassin's Creed game and that's pretty cool. Also we got nothing else going on so F it.

 

[HBAngel13]

25 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Well, if I signed Bellinger, Adell plays every day and Ward is traded for pitching with Moniak the 4th OF or the starter if Bellinger gets a start at 1B.

So I don’t view it as a choice between Bellinger and Adell.  I view it as securing a player to free up a cost-controlled body to help trade for pitching. 

 

I like the idea of trading Ward for pitching as well, but given that nasty injury he likely needs to show he can come back first. If he is back to his old self, we should definitely entertain moving him at the deadline. 

[Erstad Grit]

3 hours ago, HBAngel13 said:

I would be much more interested to see what Jo Adell is capable of over a full season for the MLB minimum than making a $200m commitment to Bellinger.  .240 and 25HR from Adell seems like a possibility with a full season of ABs

I'm OK with that if we get SP.

However Bellinger defense is in another world compared to JA and you didn't even mention defense. I also think your numbers are Bellinger floor and JA ceiling. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

No.

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I'm OK with that if we get SP.

However Bellinger defense is in another world compared to JA and you didn't even mention defense. I also think your numbers are Bellinger floor and JA ceiling. 

Bellinger only 20 HR last year

[Angels 1961]

Another trip my Arte like when he signed Hamilton. Trip to Texas in January, no way Bellinger is worth 200 mill. I think Arte has hidden his checkbook and Perry only getting players on minor league deals.