Gameday Thread: Astros @ Angels (5/8/23): Sandoval on the mound, Neto back to hitting 9th

[Slegnaac]

7 hours ago, HanfordGuy said:

This, really says, it all.

[Angels 1961]

7 hours ago, Second Base said:

Thaiss was naturally a very good hitter before the Angels drafted him. And typically, I place results on the player themselves, but in this case, the Angels effed up his development about as bad as you can. 

He was a catcher in college, and most scouts thought he had a 50/50 chance of sticking there, but would ultimately move off the position because his bat would develop too quickly for his glove to catch up. The Angels drafted him and moved him to 1B, completely understandable. Thaiss started off as a very good hitter, but the Angels tried to get him to increase his launch angle to create the offensive profile of a traditional 1B. It didn't work, his bat only got worse. The Angels then moved him to 3B and Thaiss became a solid defender over there, but it took the focus off his bat and he floundered even more offensively. Then the Angels started putting him at 2B and LF before he got sick of it. 

Thaiss came to the Angels and said he was going to play catcher. The organization was reluctant at first, but developmentally he.had stalled and was blocked everywhere else, so they went along with it, not expecting anything. Thaiss continued to put all his focus into developing as a catcher, so his bat was once again ignored, since basically 2019. 

This year, he's made the decision to stop implementing what the Angels put on him and just do what comes naturally in the batters box. The results are promising, he's a good hitter with good discipline, but he can't sell out for power, it isn't who he is and while he's struggled defensively, he's not a total liability either. 

I think Thaiss is just one of those guys that needs to play one position and be left alone. Some guys can be utility players and tinker in the box. I expect he's going to be a solid major league catcher for the next half decade. 

Thaiss and O'Hoppe in future years could be a big plus.

[Stradling]

7 hours ago, Second Base said:

Thaiss was naturally a very good hitter before the Angels drafted him. And typically, I place results on the player themselves, but in this case, the Angels effed up his development about as bad as you can. 

He was a catcher in college, and most scouts thought he had a 50/50 chance of sticking there, but would ultimately move off the position because his bat would develop too quickly for his glove to catch up. The Angels drafted him and moved him to 1B, completely understandable. Thaiss started off as a very good hitter, but the Angels tried to get him to increase his launch angle to create the offensive profile of a traditional 1B. It didn't work, his bat only got worse. The Angels then moved him to 3B and Thaiss became a solid defender over there, but it took the focus off his bat and he floundered even more offensively. Then the Angels started putting him at 2B and LF before he got sick of it. 

Thaiss came to the Angels and said he was going to play catcher. The organization was reluctant at first, but developmentally he.had stalled and was blocked everywhere else, so they went along with it, not expecting anything. Thaiss continued to put all his focus into developing as a catcher, so his bat was once again ignored, since basically 2019. 

This year, he's made the decision to stop implementing what the Angels put on him and just do what comes naturally in the batters box. The results are promising, he's a good hitter with good discipline, but he can't sell out for power, it isn't who he is and while he's struggled defensively, he's not a total liability either. 

I think Thaiss is just one of those guys that needs to play one position and be left alone. Some guys can be utility players and tinker in the box. I expect he's going to be a solid major league catcher for the next half decade. 

I remember seeing him in spring training very early on after he was drafted and he appeared to have gap to gap double power. Then that all went away. Now he looks like the same hitter although more pull happy.  My fear, if what you wrote is true, is his catching is pretty bad, and his best chance to stay in the bigs would be at first base, 3rd string catcher. At least in my opinion. But if he’s gonna struggle offensively because he isn’t kept at one position, now that he’s a legit big leaguer,  now it’s on him. I don’t disagree with you on the development side but now he’s 28 and the team has committed to him. If his role changes he has to own his results and we can’t make excuses for him. 

[Second Base]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I remember seeing him in spring training very early on after he was drafted and he appeared to have gap to gap double power. Then that all went away. Now he looks like the same hitter although more pull happy.  My fear, if what you wrote is true, is his catching is pretty bad, and his best chance to stay in the bigs would be at first base, 3rd string catcher. At least in my opinion. But if he’s gonna struggle offensively because he isn’t kept at one position, now that he’s a legit big leaguer,  now it’s on him. I don’t disagree with you on the development side but now he’s 28 and the team has committed to him. If his role changes he has to own his results and we can’t make excuses for him. 

He was and this defensively last year in Salt Lake. He had average pitch blocking ability, moved well, had a strong arm and wasn't rattled by anything. The game at the big league level is moving pretty fast for him right now. With time, it'll slow down for him and he'll become an adequate, or even an average defender. Offensively, now that he's gone to his natural whole field approach, with more pool ability than he had before, and the shift has been banned, I don't see any reason why he can't hit .280 with some extra base pop. 

And there's a niche for players of his type in the majors. We're seeing that with Alejandro Kirk, Willson Contreras, Gabriel Moreno... He'll be fine in the long run. 

[Blarg]

O'Hoppe started out so strong at the plate .283/.339/.547/.886 that when he went down I felt the offense was going to struggle without him. Rendon wasn't hitting, Drury wasn't, Rengifo still isn't, and all I could think was Thaiss wasn't going to help at all. 

Currently Thaiss is O'Hoppe light hitting .310/.400/.429/.829, a click below in slugging but getting on base more. I don't think either are sustainable, O'Hoppe would probably regress, Thaiss is probably going to regress, but for now it's nice not having another season of black hole after black hole in the lineup because the catchers can't hit their weight. 

I'm resigned to O'Hoppe missing pretty much the rest of the season. So Thaiss is going to get a full year behind the plate to hone his defense to go with the offense. With Stassi a complete unknown as to a return timetable the team does take a hit on the defensive end, Wallach has never impressed me and his current slash line won't last long, he is not a hitter even in the AAA circuit. But again, gift horse so I'm not going to complain. 

If Thaiss does complete the season and gains the pitching staff confidence, then Quero can be worked with in AAA to hone his defense next season while O'Hoppe returns to being the starting catcher. Eventually one of Thaiss or O'Hoppe will rotate to 1st base if Logan's shoulder can't take the catching strain and Quero will make his debut in late 2024 when rosters expand.

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

O'Hoppe started out so strong at the plate .283/.339/.547/.886 that when he went down I felt the offense was going to struggle without him. Rendon wasn't hitting, Drury wasn't, Rengifo still isn't, and all I could think was Thaiss wasn't going to help at all. 

Currently Thaiss is O'Hoppe light hitting .310/.400/.429/.829, a click below in slugging but getting on base more. I don't think either are sustainable, O'Hoppe would probably regress, Thaiss is probably going to regress, but for now it's nice not having another season of black hole after black hole in the lineup because the catchers can't hit their weight. 

I'm resigned to O'Hoppe missing pretty much the rest of the season. So Thaiss is going to get a full year behind the plate to hone his defense to go with the offense. With Stassi a complete unknown as to a return timetable the team does take a hit on the defensive end, Wallach has never impressed me and his current slash line won't last long, he is not a hitter even in the AAA circuit. But again, gift horse so I'm not going to complain. 

If Thaiss does complete the season and gains the pitching staff confidence, then Quero can be worked with in AAA to hone his defense next season while O'Hoppe returns to being the starting catcher. Eventually one of Thaiss or O'Hoppe will rotate to 1st base if Logan's shoulder can't take the catching strain and Quero will make his debut in late 2024 when rosters expand.

Good analysis. I think Thaiss won't be replaced because there's nothing better that's available via FA and unless they're willing to take on Contreras' contract from the Cardinals, there likely wont be anything better on the trade front either. Generally speaking, when teams have a good or even a decent catcher, they don't trade them. 

As for the future, hard to say. If I had to guess, I think Thaiss plays out this year as the catcher and O'Hoppe doesn't come back until next season. They'll keep Quero in AA for the remainder of the season and allow him to develop defensively. In 2024, they'll say the catching spot is up for grabs like they did this Spring, but given his offensive and defensive upside, O'Hoppe will take it and run with it, with Thaiss serving as an offensive minded backup. He might even get some starts at DH in 2024. Quero will get his feet wet in 2024 and will be ready for a prominent role in 2025, and Thaiss will be dealt in the winter of 24/25. 

[Revad]

What happens when Stassi comes back- he’s signed through 2024 ($5.8M average)?

[Blarg]

8 minutes ago, Revad said:

What happens when Stassi comes back- he’s signed through 2024 ($5.8M average)?

If he comes back this season Wallch goes back to AAA. Next season it would be a tandem of Stassi and O'Hoppe with Thaiss being a super-sub playing a little outfield and first and covering any catcher injuries but I have a sneaking suspicion Stassi may be done and if not trade bait in the off season. 

[DMVol]

24 minutes ago, Blarg said:

If he comes back this season Wallch goes back to AAA. Next season it would be a tandem of Stassi and O'Hoppe with Thaiss being a super-sub playing a little outfield and first and covering any catcher injuries but I have a sneaking suspicion Stassi may be done and if not trade bait in the off season. 

He's owed 7 million in 24, at best he's going to miss a good chunk of 23 (if he comes back at all) and he was terrible in 22.....how would he have any trade value? I guess we could qualify it and say if he could come back this year and play well.....

[jsnpritchett]

17 minutes ago, DMVol said:

He's owed 7 million in 24, at best he's going to miss a good chunk of 23 (if he comes back at all) and he was terrible in 22.....how would he have any trade value? I guess we could qualify it and say if he could come back this year and play well.....

Even if he does come back this year and play pretty well, I still doubt there would be much demand for him at $7M (really, $7.5M, because there's a $500K buyout or $7.5M due in '25) unless he was part of a package.

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Revad said:

What happens when Stassi comes back- he’s signed through 2024 ($5.8M average)?

Cross that bridge when Stassi comes back. In 2024 if Ohtani gone room for Thaiss at 1B, C, DH.