Tamin’s Bullpen Matrix

[BTH]

I rarely agree with Joe Maddon, but he’s right in this instance: Tamin’s bullpen usage matrix is stupid.

Estévez should’ve been available tonight, but he wasn’t because they don’t want to use relievers in 3/4 games this early.

That completely ignores the emotion and feel of a game. I’m sure Estévez wanted to pitch. The team came back from down 7-2. And it gets blown because the bullpen matrix says Estévez is unavailable.

[BTH]

@Jeff Fletcher can you ask Perry about Tamin’s bullpen matrix.

Maddon has said that it effected his bullpen usage, and it clearly effected Nevin’s usage tonight and in other games.

For a GM who talks about unmeasurable things like makeup, Perry seems to be out of touch in regard to having a feel for the game.

[cals]

And everyone knows chicks names Tammy are always fat.  Not who I would seek bullpen advice from.  Maybe BBQ advice but not bullpen.

[jsnpritchett]

I just posted this in the GameDay Thread before I saw this one: 

"Over the course of his career, Estevez has been fine when used on back-to-back days. In those situations, he has a 3.45 ERA and a 1.29 WHIP, compared to overall numbers of a 4.50 ERA and a 1.41 WHIP.

It's absurd to say he was unavailable after throwing 6 pitches yesterday.". 

[Docwaukee]

was just looking for a place to post on this.   whatever they're doing, it's not working.  Is it a good bullpen?  Hell no.  Can it be managed better?  Hell yes.  And this isn't all on Nevin by any means.  

I don't care what the matrix shows.  There has to be some leeway to keep Jaime Barria out of high leverage spots.  

Wins should take priority over load management.  I don't care how mediocre the rest of your pen is, Jaime Barria shouldn't be included in that hodgepodge. 

I've never put a ton of weight on assigning a win or loss to a particular pitcher, but as a collective, the pen has 9 losses in their first 23 games.  The most in a season in the history of baseball is 42. 

They might break that by July.   

 

[Angel Oracle]

The ONLY way that works is if the bullpen is truly 8 deep in solid pitchers.

[Chico]

I turned on the game last night in the sixth inning when the Angels came from behind to tie the score, , after coming back from a 7-2 deficit. Then I turned it off, then turned it on again in the top of the 9th when the Angels were winning 8-7 and trying to close it out. They brought Wantz in to attempt to close the game. Wantz had never closed a game before. He walked the first two batters. Then they yanked Wantz and brough in Barria, who had never closed a game before. Sensing a pattern? Then Barria walked in the tying run and eventually got out of the inning after Ward made the spectacular game-saving catch to save his hide. Then I turned it off and went to sleep. (I live on the East Coast)

I noticed that the starting pitcher Suarez also got shelled.

Against the 4-18 Oakland A's.

Now they're talking about moving Suarez to the bullpen, like what they do when they shuffle perverted priests to a different parrish or corrupt government officials to the media. It's the same damn problem just put it somewhere else . 

I want someone to take the fall for this game.  I'm sick of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic with the pitching staff. Thinking about Suarez, Wantz and Barria, all three of them wouldn't be major losses. Neither would "Interim" pitching coach Matt Wise. The team has been poorly managed for years and the pitching has been the worst part of the team, so much so that they drafted twenty pitchers in a recent draft. My choice would be to fire Wise with Suarez, Wantz and Barria close behind. 

I wish the Angels would pick up a world-class pitching coach. It seems like such a clear idea. But they keep getting these non-entities and mediocrities coaching. Nevin is also a mediocrity. And don't get me started on Moreno, who's the Captain Queeg of this ship.

[totdprods]

Oh snap I just referenced this then scrolled down and saw almost my exact words hahahaha

[Jeff Fletcher]

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

 

In regards to your first tweet and the associated story. It begs the question of whether their stuff was actually affected. Velo, spin rate etc since that stuff is measurable now.

or if they are just digging for excuses

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

In regards to your first tweet and the associated story. It begs the question of whether their stuff was actually affected. Velo, spin rate etc since that stuff is measurable now.

or if they are just digging for excuses

If I’m not mistaken Tepera, Loup and Iglesias all had 10 ERAs in May last year. 

[Angels 1961]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

 

So halos have pitchers going 5 to 6 inn and a weak bullpen they are in trouble. Little in farm system to bring up plus little confidence in Loup and Tepera now. Minasian should start taking calls on Ohtani now. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If I’m not mistaken Tepera, Loup and Iglesias all had 10 ERAs in May last year. 

Sure, but is that really due to over use?

if they’re tired, you would think their stuff would be weaker so to speak. Leading to crappy outings.

or the weirdness of baseball just happened.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Sure, but is that really due to over use?

if they’re tired, you would think their stuff would be weaker so to speak. Leading to crappy outings.

or the weirdness of baseball just happened.

Yea I have no idea. 

[BTH]

49 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

 

When they stick with guys who don’t have options, like Barría and Loup, it makes it impossible for them to put relievers with options on the roster.

They have pitchers in their farm system that would make decent relievers, if they showed the same urgency with them as they did with Neto.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Barria and Wantz aren't even bad pitchers in a vacuum (compared to Tepera and a lot of the other garbage we've thrown out there over the years) but throwing them into a save situation because half the bullpen is unavailable due to some spreadsheet is just laughable. It honestly seemed like the plan with Barria was to just leave him in there until the game ended one way or the other. He'd have given up like 7 runs if Wade didn't bail him out. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

39 minutes ago, Trendon said:

When they stick with guys who don’t have options, like Barría and Loup, it makes it impossible for them to put relievers with options on the roster.

They have pitchers in their farm system that would make decent relievers, if they showed the same urgency with them as they did with Neto.

I do think the day of reckoning is coming in that regard. At some point, they will have to just DFA guys like Loup and Barría if they don’t pitch well or can’t be used in high leverage spots. 
 

That point isn’t now (because it’s April and they’re 11-12, which is still very much alive).

Bear in mind that Neto/Fletcher was a zero risk move because they weren’t going to lose Fletcher. 
 

The difference between Fletcher and Loup is a team had to take all Fletcher’s salary to get him. In Loup’s case, he can just leave and the Angels will have to pay all his salary and then another team can get him for free. It’s because Loup has more than 5 years service time, and Fletcher didn’t. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Sure, but is that really due to over use?

if they’re tired, you would think their stuff would be weaker so to speak. Leading to crappy outings.

or the weirdness of baseball just happened.

They seem to be pretty certain there is a cause and effect with overuse and poor performance, because they had these rules before the 2022 meltdown. Maddon just ignored them. It’s not like they made up the rules to fit what happened after the fact. 

[T.G.]

Fantasy baseball has made many think they know better.

[BTH]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I do think the day of reckoning is coming in that regard. At some point, they will have to just DFA guys like Loup and Barría if they don’t pitch well or can’t be used in high leverage spots. 
 

That point isn’t now (because it’s April and they’re 11-12, which is still very much alive).

Bear in mind that Neto/Fletcher was a zero risk move because they weren’t going to lose Fletcher. 
 

The difference between Fletcher and Loup is a team had to take all Fletcher’s salary to get him. In Loup’s case, he can just leave and the Angels will have to pay all his salary and then another team can get him for free. It’s because Loup has more than 5 years service time, and Fletcher didn’t. 

I understand the roster mechanics, but they shouldn’t be afraid of losing Loup if they don’t trust him (which they clearly don’t).

There were 3 straight lefties in the 10th (Peterson, Noda, Kemp), yet they chose to stay with Barría instead of going to Loup.

[T.G.]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That point isn’t now (because it’s April and they’re 11-12, which is still very much alive).

Even though it's true... a lot of fans hate hearing that.  They need to hear it though.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Just now, T.G. said:

Even though it's true... a lot of fans hate hearing that.  They need to hear it though.

Mathematically, even the A's are alive, and will be for a few more months. 

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Mathematically, even the A's are alive, and will be for a few more months. 

F the A's.

[Make Angels Great Again]

24 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Fantasy baseball has made many think they know better.

I don’t know if that’s directed at me, but I don’t claim to know better. I’m just asking the obvious question that if this is the case, then logically speaking wouldn’t this be as well?

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

I don’t know if that’s directed at me, but I don’t claim to know better. I’m just asking the obvious question that if this is the case, then logically speaking wouldn’t this be as well?

Not directed at anyone in particular....

I'm just shouting at the clouds.