SPs, ERA, FIP, SIERA and stats are the devil...

[Inside Pitch]

Since opening day: 490 IP (20th)
4.77 ERA (22nd), 4.08 FIP (15th), 4.05 SIERA(12th)
April 1 to April 110.0 IP (28th), 5.97 ERA (30th), 4.23 FIP (16th), 3.80 SIERA (8th)

Since May 1st: 380.2 IP (14th)
4.42 ERA (20th), 4.04  FIP(13th), 4.13 SIERA (13th)
May 1 to May 31:  126.2 IP (22nd) 4.50 ERA (21st), 4.44 FIP (21st), 4.34 SIERA (18th)

Since June 1st: 238.2 IP (12th)
4.37 ERA (15th), 3.81 FIP (7th), 4.01 SIERA (7th)
June 1 to June 30:  142 IP (14th), 5.47 ERA (25th), 4.05 FIP (11th), 3.90 SIERA (6th)

Since July 1st: 112 IP (7th)
3.13 ERA (5th), 3.53 FIP (3rd), 4.14 SIERA (10th)

That's a pretty steady progression that coincides with the team replacing their struggling starters.  Probably the biggest takeaway is how the SPs have been staying in games longer (relative to the league), as the season has dragged on. Also, the apparent impact defense has had on the SPs.

Hopefully we see the team do something similar with the RP..  Lets see more of Wantz and the AA boys, less of Guerra and the "proven" vets.

 

[Angelsjunky]

To some degree there is a repeat of the last few years, with the Angels discovering that some of their starters just suck:

2021: Quintana, Bundy, and Canning (unfortunately)

2020: Teheran, and those four horrible starts by Suarez and Ohtani 

2019: Harvey and Cahill, and then poor replacements in Suarez and Barria

The commonality are crappy free agents/veterans who just don't pan out, with Cobb being the lone exception (and, I suppose, we can say Bundy in 2020).

What is exciting about next year is that the Angels have a stable of young starters who all seem to be "coming of age." Obviously we need to see how Detmers and Rodriguez do as major league starters, and it may be too soon to feel confident in Barria or even Suarez, and it seems like Canning needs to be re-made, but the Angels have two months to get a better sense of what they have, and in turn decide on what they need.

I really think it will come down to just one new starter, whether re-signing Cobb or going after Stroman or even Gausman. Or it may be that trades bring in another young starter or two on the cusp, and they'll focus solely on creating a new bullpen.

So as you imply, the next two months should be about assessing the young starters, including Detmers and C-Rod, seeing if they can fix Canning, letting Sandoval and Suarez continue to etablish themselves as quality starters, giving Barria a fair shake. And couple that with bringing up guys like Ortega and Tyler, to see if they can be bullpen pieces next year.

 

[Inside Pitch]

44 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

To some degree there is a repeat of the last few years, with the Angels discovering that some of their starters just suck

Sure, the big difference is they may have finally found the in house options to end the cycte.

46 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

What is exciting about next year is that the Angels have a stable of young starters who all seem to be "coming of age." Obviously we need to see how Detmers and Rodriguez do as major league starters, and it may be too soon to feel confident in Barria or even Suarez, and it seems like Canning needs to be re-made, but the Angels have two months to get a better sense of what they have, and in turn decide on what they need.

Canning isn't a lost cause, at worst he can likely slot in as a back end RP..  Part of why I hated them having wasted time with C-Rod as a RP early on is they could have done with him what they did with Detmers and then they would have two guys primed to be SPs with multiple pitches who they could slot into the pen in an effort to limit their innings while at the same time getting their feet wet this year.  Given the relative youth and potential concerns about innings totals for ALL the pitchers this year, having all of three of Canning, Rodriguez, and Detmers as guys capable of being the back side of a couple tandem rotations could/might still be a nice luxury to have down the stretch..  

47 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

And couple that with bringing up guys like Ortega and Tyler, to see if they can be bullpen pieces next year.

As you know from the minor league thread, I like the potential of some of the guys in AA as RP options.  They have several guys down there capable of making their own outs, command will ultimately dictate when they are ready but when you consider gusy who might be 6 year FAs and 40 man roster candidates it is likely in the Angels best interest to take a look at some of them. 

[Second Base]

The big takeaway for me was just how much the defense hurt the pitching staff to begin the season. With Pujols at 1B, Walsh in RF, Iglesias early season struggles at SS, the rotation at 3B, Suzuki at catcher and a bunch of infielders and Upton in the OF, it got really bad. 

And now, quite the opposite. Literally everyone is a good defender except Upton. And now their ERA is starting to match their FIP.

I hope they make the playoffs this year, but more than anything it seems the Angels have a bright future and for once, it has nothing to do with money coming off the books or the potential of the upcoming free agent class. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Second Base

[Taylor]

Other than Shohei, the best part of this season has been the success of the young pitchers. I do worry that they'll all be able to adjust once the league figures them out, but it's been so long since we've had a young guy come up and dominate, and we've seen several examples of that so far.

[ten ocho recon scout]

21 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Other than Shohei, the best part of this season has been the success of the young pitchers. I do worry that they'll all be able to adjust once the league figures them out, but it's been so long since we've had a young guy come up and dominate, and we've seen several examples of that so far.

I think we'd all be excited if they didnt even dominate.

Even getting 3 heaneys, in house, for cheap, would be a plus

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Heaney has been league average or below league average most of his career.  If we end up with a couple cost controlled #4 types who pitch 180+ innings a year that's great considering what the Angels have gotten out of some of their peanut signings the last so many years but it would be huge to see someone besides Ohtani step up and consistently pitch like a #3 or better.  I don't follow the young guys anywhere near as much as some other fans here do but Sandoval and Detmers are two guys my hopes for keep getting higher.        

[Mark PT]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

To some degree there is a repeat of the last few years, with the Angels discovering that some of their starters just suck:

2021: Quintana, Bundy, and Canning (unfortunately)

2020: Teheran, and those four horrible starts by Suarez and Ohtani 

2019: Harvey and Cahill, and then poor replacements in Suarez and Barria

The commonality are crappy free agents/veterans who just don't pan out, with Cobb being the lone exception (and, I suppose, we can say Bundy in 2020).

What is exciting about next year is that the Angels have a stable of young starters who all seem to be "coming of age." Obviously we need to see how Detmers and Rodriguez do as major league starters, and it may be too soon to feel confident in Barria or even Suarez, and it seems like Canning needs to be re-made, but the Angels have two months to get a better sense of what they have, and in turn decide on what they need.

I really think it will come down to just one new starter, whether re-signing Cobb or going after Stroman or even Gausman. Or it may be that trades bring in another young starter or two on the cusp, and they'll focus solely on creating a new bullpen.

So as you imply, the next two months should be about assessing the young starters, including Detmers and C-Rod, seeing if they can fix Canning, letting Sandoval and Suarez continue to etablish themselves as quality starters, giving Barria a fair shake. And couple that with bringing up guys like Ortega and Tyler, to see if they can be bullpen pieces next year.

 

Could be on the cusp of a good staff. With Sandoval, Ohtani, and Cobb already here and developing (scary to think Ohtani can develop further), then adding Detmers and Rodriguez/Canning (hopefully) and further development of Suarez. This may become a good development. Is there any chance of getting a Scherzer? This would get us into the PO.

[Mark PT]

5 hours ago, Taylor said:

Other than Shohei, the best part of this season has been the success of the young pitchers. I do worry that they'll all be able to adjust once the league figures them out, but it's been so long since we've had a young guy come up and dominate, and we've seen several examples of that so far.

I get you but their development has been due to their increased control and this is how every successful pitcher does it. Their is no real adjustment for that Sandoval change up when he is dotting the corners and moving the ball around the zone the way he has the last 4-5 starts. He, Ohtani, and Cobb have all been doing this in July (for the most part). Need Canning to get in gear and if that happens, this staff is as good as any in the game. The bullpen, however, is another thread.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think we'd all be excited if they didnt even dominate.

Even getting 3 heaneys, in house, for cheap, would be a plus

3 heaneys say it ain't so. l don't care too much for the one we have now

[Stradling]

@Inside Pitch is the new @Angelsjunky

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

@Inside Pitch is the new @Angelsjunky

The Angels defense is the Angels defense.

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

@Inside Pitch is the new @Angelsjunky

[Inside Pitch]

37 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said: