Who will be the starting 2B in 2017

[Richard]

More names for speculation. 

He's owed 14 million next season so the reds would probably need to send some money wherever he ends up.

 

[DMVol]

24 minutes ago, Richard said:

More names for speculation. He's owed 14 million next season so the reds would probably need to send some money wherever he ends up.

Would be a similar pick up to Maybin....would give us a pretty good everyday lineup, if everybody stays healthy....

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Would be a similar pick up to Maybin....would give us a pretty good everyday lineup, if everybody stays healthy....

Doesn't quite fit the mold of a defense-first, left/switch hitter though. Wouldn't be bad but if Kendrick wasn't a match I don't see how Phillips would be.

I'm expecting a Brock Holt, Tommy La Stella, Chris Coghlan, Daniel DeScalso, Marco Hernandez type. 

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Doesn't quite fit the mold of a defense-first, left/switch hitter though. Wouldn't be bad but if Kendrick wasn't a match I don't see how Phillips would be.

I'm expecting a Brock Holt, Tommy La Stella, Chris Coghlan, Daniel DeScalso, Marco Hernandez type. 

i kind of wonder if the "defense first" mantra isn't code for "we aren't spending any money on a 2bman", i.e. Kendrick, Phillips, etc......your list is ok but looks a lot like Johnny G, only with better D than O....

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, DMVol said:

i kind of wonder if the "defense first" mantra isn't code for "we aren't spending any money on a 2bman", i.e. Kendrick, Phillips, etc......your list is ok but looks a lot like Johnny G, only with better D than O....

All they need to do better offensively than Johnny G is get on base. We've had a sub .300 OBP at second for two or three years running with poor defense. If they can get on-base at a .320+ clip in the 9 spot ahead of high-contact guys Escobar, Maybin, and Trout and be good defensively, it's a massive improvement. 

Two years ago, Johnny got on base at a decent clip, but his defense was awful, and the top of our order wasn't as effective. Last year his defense was better, but his OBP dropped bigtime.

[Cdaniel]

Sources: Brandon Phillips is more willing to consider waiving no-trade clause this offseason than last, with only 1 year left on deal. @MLB

[Second Base]

I'm thinking it's someone like Scooter Gennett, where he'all hit .250/.320 with no pop or speed and decent defense.

[Docwaukee]

Phillips used to be a premier defensive 2bman.  This year, defensive metrics didn't like him at all.  I didn't see him play so it could have been because he was bored from the team sucking.  

[Oz27]

I paid very little attention to Phillips and the Reds this year. Taking a quick look at his stats, how the hell was his walk rate only 3.1 per cent? Even Mark Trumbo and C.J. Cron would laugh at that one. I don't really get the attraction to him to be honest. He's a below average hitter these days, who would be moving to a better league, and the numbers say he can't defend anymore either. That's an opportunity I would be happy to pass up.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

I paid very little attention to Phillips and the Reds this year. Taking a quick look at his stats, how the hell was his walk rate only 3.1 per cent? Even Mark Trumbo and C.J. Cron would laugh at that one. I don't really get the attraction to him to be honest. He's a below average hitter these days, who would be moving to a better league, and the numbers say he can't defend anymore either. That's an opportunity I would be happy to pass up.

These are all fantastic points, but please allow me to propose a counter argument:

Black. Guy.

[John Smith]

Cincinnati Reds Rumors - Los Angeles Angels Hone in on Brandon Phillips

"The Angels are rumored to have offered back-up infielder Cliff Pennington and former Ohio State outfielder Troy Montgomery in exchange for Phillips and a potential relief pitcher."

[tdawg87]

Odd. But that's not much to give up. Something tells me Cincy would want a lot more than that, unless Phillips has demanded a trade or something.

[Troll Daddy]

Phillips is owed $14M next season ... now that's odd

[Docwaukee]

he's owed 14mil and entering his 36yo season coming off a 0.8 WAR season.  He's basically the 2b version of Escobar.  

Meh.  It's unlikely that Mongomery ends up some stud, but just leave the f'n farm system alone for the love of god.  We aren't going to win in 2017.  You want to waste some money on a 1yr deal for a FA?  Go ahead.  Just stop depleting our minor league talent.  

[Troll Daddy]

The FO plans on winning ... what the fans believe is irrelevant. 

[ettin]

On 11/12/2016 at 11:02 AM, DMVol said:

i kind of wonder if the "defense first" mantra isn't code for "we aren't spending any money on a 2bman", i.e. Kendrick, Phillips, etc......your list is ok but looks a lot like Johnny G, only with better D than O....

I would bet good money that defense is the #1 thing they want out of their 2B if they have to prioritize wants. If they happen to pick up someone like Dozier who plays above average defense but has better offense then more power to them.

[Docwaukee]

36 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

The FO plans on winning ... what the fans believe is irrelevant. 

what the fans believe is totally relevant.  certainly not on an individual basis, but you have to consider your majority fan base and what will bring them to the park.  In this case, they are appeasing the fans by filling some gaps and they are going to promote the 'we will be competitive' mantra. 

And I am cool with that as long as they don't keep shaving off parts of our farm system.  

[Second Base]

I'm not a big fan of reading the actual good prospects we have for expensive 36 year old players with declining skill sets and attitude problems. 

It should be enough that we're even willing to take on Phillips' salary, why overpay by offering something of value in a farm system that doesn't have much value to go around?

[Docwaukee]

32 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I'm not a big fan of reading the actual good prospects we have for expensive 36 year old players with declining skill sets and attitude problems. 

It should be enough that we're even willing to take on Phillips' salary, why overpay by offering something of value in a farm system that doesn't have much value to go around?

pretty much.  Not saying Montgomery is gonna be some sort of all star, but for every 5 players you give up that other teams see value in, one of those guys is gonna turn out to be a major leaguer.  

[tdawg87]

Is Montgomery even a top 25 prospect in the Angels' system? MLB.com has him at 26th. 

I realize rankings aren't everything but clearly he's not highly thought of if he can't crack the top 25 in the worst farm system in baseball. His stats look decent through Burlington but he's 22 years old. Unless I'm missing something I don't see, he seems like a throw in. 

Not saying I want the Angels to trade for Phillips, but there's no way that rumored "package" is too much. Especially if the Angels would be getting a relief prospect in return as well.

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Is Montgomery even a top 25 prospect in the Angels' system? MLB.com has him at 26th. 

I realize rankings aren't everything but clearly he's not highly thought of if he can't crack the top 25 in the worst farm system in baseball. His stats look decent through Burlington but he's 22 years old. Unless I'm missing something I don't see, he seems like a throw in. 

Not saying I want the Angels to trade for Phillips, but there's no way that rumored "package" is too much. Especially if the Angels would be getting a relief prospect in return as well.

Montgomery reminds me a lot of Kole Calhoun. Both from major programs, both are left handed, both are the same height, both don't have any specific tools that pop out, but also no weaknesses in their game which results in a very solid all-around player. He ranks much higher on our AW list than he does on others, but he's the type of player that may never rank highly as a prospect, much like Kole never did.

Other teams are already inquiring about this kid we stole in the 8th round. There's a buzz among scouts who saw him play. Are you sure you want to trade him before he builds any value? Are you sure you want to package him for one year and 14 million of Brandon Phillips in his mid-30's? Are you sure you want to trade him at all?

[totdprods]

Wish we could pry Profar away from the Rangers.

It'd be pretty dicey for either team to pull the trigger, but Skaggs for Profar and DeShields would help the Rangers solidify their rotation and give the Halos two very promising youngsters who have underwhelmed, but are still very young, and fill our current needs. Both can play multiple positions, speedy, good on defense, switch-hitters, young, cheap.

Profar would be with his countryman in Simmons and if he at least provided league average offense with his plus defense, it'd be a good deal for the long-term. DeShields would fill the 4th OF role easily, and he would make a perfect LF/leadoff hitter if he comes around. Angels would still need to sign a Nova, Volquez, etc.

Very high risk/high reward trade for both teams, and Rangers are likely better off including one of them in a package for an established ace, but it still feels like a fair trade.

[Second Base]

5 hours ago, totdprods said:

Wish we could pry Profar away from the Rangers.

It'd be pretty dicey for either team to pull the trigger, but Skaggs for Profar and DeShields would help the Rangers solidify their rotation and give the Halos two very promising youngsters who have underwhelmed, but are still very young, and fill our current needs. Both can play multiple positions, speedy, good on defense, switch-hitters, young, cheap.

Profar would be with his countryman in Simmons and if he at least provided league average offense with his plus defense, it'd be a good deal for the long-term. DeShields would fill the 4th OF role easily, and he would make a perfect LF/leadoff hitter if he comes around. Angels would still need to sign a Nova, Volquez, etc.

Very high risk/high reward trade for both teams, and Rangers are likely better off including one of them in a package for an established ace, but it still feels like a fair trade.

Hard to imagine Daniels trading Profar to a division rival. We've made the mistake of trading and letting players walk only to have it come back and bite us all too often.

Im not opposed to acquiring Brandon Phillips, but if we're going to eat all that salary and trade Montgomery, then we better be getting one heck of a RP back to justify that deal. Something about that deal has to make it more beneficial than simply signing Chase Utley to a 1/7 deal. From where I'm sitting, Phillips is double the price, plus a decent prospect.

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Hard to imagine Daniels trading Profar to a division rival. We've made the mistake of trading and letting players walk only to have it come back and bite us all too often.

Same can be said of Skaggs. Profar was pretty awful away from Arlington, and DeShields wasn't anything special away from there either. Skaggs gives them an arm that could make immediate impact, where Profar and DeShields would be players whom the Angels may not see results from immediately. Sort of a win-now for the Rangers, and hopefully a win-soon-from-now for the Angels. 

It would be unlikely though. Either player would be a chip better used in a trade for a #1-2. But Skaggs would cost far less in a package in terms of dealing from their prospects.

[Oz27]

8 hours ago, totdprods said:

It'd be pretty dicey for either team to pull the trigger, but Skaggs for Profar and DeShields would help the Rangers solidify their rotation

Come on, dude. That would be about as even as trading one of our ball kids for a 2004 Barry Bonds cloning machine.