Ohtani and the Hall of Fame - Angel or Dodger?

[Duren, Duren]

Bear with my preamble, I'm trying to throw some light on how an HOF induction can be controversial years after the fact. 

Let me state at the start. I'm a veteran of watching disgruntled HOF players about to be inducted. 

As a former Expo fan I have experience with a marginalized franchise outside the mainstream of MLB focus. 

The Expos have four home grown  HOF players who came up through their system and put up big numbers with them.  Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Tim Raines and Larry Walker. 

Walker's prime was in Colorado though he was emerging as an all star before literally being given away in a fire sale as the franchise went into it's death cycle. So going into the HOF as a Rockie is appropriate. 

This week Andre Dawson still showed decades of bitterness about the Expos and is currently trying to have his HOF placque and profile changed to the Cubs. His resentment goes back to his injuries and his perception of being disrespected. Conversely he won an MVP with the Cubs and was treated as a hero. Statistically his body of work with the Expos was longer, and his stats more impressive in more categories. 

Carter was the first home grown star of the franchise and one of the most prominent athletes in Canada. He did many commercials and was everywhere in the media. While honing his game and becoming a perennial all star for multiple years. But in a shock trade to the Mets he found an even bigger spotlight and capped it off with the 1986 World Series. So when the HOF came calling, his sentiments were with New York. 

Ironically he and Dawson were induced as Expos as the MLB committee saw fit based on the totality of their careers apart from their personal desires. 

Raines was a great player for many years. One of the best in his era combining speed, power and average. A league leader or near the top year after year variously in runs scored, stolen bases and batting average with double digit homers. But his personal life took a downturn and nearly ruined his life when he became heavily drug addicted. Arguments have been made that the Expos could have won a pennant or two if his play wasn't affected by drugs. Even so, he still put up what would become HOF numbers. But playing for the Yankees and White Sox after getting clean  magnified his image. If he only stayed in Montreal maybe he doesn't get in, or takes longer. 

So getting to Ohtani. 

Will his time with the Dodgers be longer, better, more impressive than it was with the Angels? And if it does, or is roughly equal, will be be inducted one way or the other? 

Obviously no one will judge until he retires. No one knows if he will play out the ten years of his contract. Nor how he and his team does.

The odds are that the Dodgers will have lots of post season opportunities while he is there, so he will have a stage he never had with the Angels. If he contributes in a big way post season  over time I think he'll go in as a Dodger, providing his stats are elite and near league leading over multiple years. Even if his two way play is reduced he still can put up one way HOF numbers. 

Yet there still is an argument for the Angels.

If injuries hit him severely he may not play more than the six he already has. Also age, normal wear and tear, slowing of reflexes, speed, strength will be factors some degree at some point. He's in his thirties for the entirety of this contract. Maybe his ultra, historic peak years are behind him.

He did what no one else has while an Angel. Maybe he doesn't top those years again, even while being elite. Especially the two way play. Historians factor things like that in their equation. So it's possible that his Angels career remains the most memorable.

But that's as an individual. When you include team dynamics, the odds are heavily loaded in favour of great success with the Dodgers. Which instantly sways HOF voters. 

Whatever happens, I doubt Ohtani shows the bitterness of a Carter or Dawson if the hat he's inducted with isn't to his preference. He's too classy and mature to throw tantrums over things like that. 

 

[ScottT]

[failos]

[Angelsjunky]

Dude, give it a decade or so. If Ohtani wins three or four WS with the Dodgers (or even just one), this question will be moot. If he blows out his arm in Spring Training of 2025, people will always remember his 2021-23 as "the" unicorn version of Shohei Ohtani.

Either way, give it a few years, at least.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[Stradling]

As of today I don’t give a shit about what hat he wears in the HOF. I do believe he will make it but it will be for what he’s already done, which was to be a unicorn.  I don’t have enough faith in his elbow to allow him to be a dominant pitcher moving forward, but who knows. 

[Erstad Grit]

I remember the Pujols Angel or Cardinal HOF question that off-season lol

Ohtani hasn't done a thing for the Dodgers yet so irrelevant question. 

 

[Taylor]

How can we possibly know?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

How can we possibly know?

If that was a qualification we would have very little discussion on here. 

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

How can we possibly know?

You sound like @T.G.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

You sound like @T.G.

I'm flattered.

[EDinTUSTIN]

Frankly, I couldn't care any less. Good for him if he does, but it wasn't as if he led us to any postseason appearances. He is a special talent, to be sure. That said, the spectre of arm injury that will end at least his pitching career is an ever-present risk and possibility. If that happens, he would be a very expensive--albeit great--DH for 70 mil a season. With that backdrop, I don't care which team he hypothetically is inducted under.

[Dtwncbad]

The more important burning question that has been really torturing me is whether or not he can grow a mustache.

[ELEVEN]

If Ohtani wins a WS as a Dodger, then I'll assume that will be how he'd prefer to be remembered.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

He’s going in as a dodger already.  Probably part of the contract.  
 

we’ve got Jeff Mathis in the HOF and Jeter is like an Angel.  We’re good. 

[EDinTUSTIN]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:25 AM, Dtwncbad said:

The more important burning question that has been really torturing me is whether or not he can grow a mustache.

Lol