Who Do You Want Gone Next Season?

[Blarg]

12 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

The major issues with the Angels this year by a long shot is:

1.  Injuries and

2. Pitching...........By a long shot.  Probably 80% of the reason for the season.

To even bring in the opinion that "the coaches don't get the most out of the players", or the batting order was the reason,  is just a stupid, lazy comment.   Bringing this up, considering the many many other issues with the team, takes the focus off the real problems.

I know you feel you have to defend everything Nevin and it behooves all of us as to why. Must be some personal relationship but regardless, you posed a question and I answered from my POV. I don't believe this coaching staff is effective. You haven't provided any response with supporting facts of Nevin's competence at the job. 

 

[YouthofToday]

As long as Arte owns the team nothing matters. Nothing will change until he is gone. 
 

Eternal mediocrity. 

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I know you feel you have to defend everything Nevin and it behooves all of us as to why. Must be some personal relationship but regardless, you posed a question and I answered from my POV. I don't believe this coaching staff is effective. You haven't provided any response with supporting facts of Nevin's competence at the job. 

 

I have no allegiance to any of the coaches.   IMO you guys always blaming the coaches and insisting on firing coaches every season, does nothing but make stupid people feel better about themselves, and fails to address any tangible and more relevant issues the team should be focusing on.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

I have no allegiance to any of the coaches.   IMO you guys always blaming the coaches and insisting on firing coaches every season, does nothing but make stupid people feel better about themselves, and fails to address any tangible and more relevant issues the team should be focusing on.

You still haven't convinced me. So far your statements completely avoid Nevin the manager and just focus on fans impressions. Like you may not have any reasons why you think Nevin is competent and are avoiding that conversation.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, YouthofToday said:

As long as Arte owns the team nothing matters. Nothing will change until he is gone. 
 

Eternal mediocrity. 

The abyss continues on further than light can penetrate it's depths of sorrow. 

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You still haven't convinced me. So far your statements completely avoid Nevin the manager and just focus on fans impressions. Like you may not have any reasons why you think Nevin is competent and are avoiding that conversation.

IMO its too early to tell on Nevin.   I don't think there is any compelling reason to fire him.  It doesn't make sense that "someone has to take the fall" for the season record, when any rationally thinking person knows that injuries and starting pitching are the main culprits.

The players are on record in supporting him, so he has the confidence of the clubhouse, which is important for any leader.

Like all managers who have to make tough calls with uncertain outcomes, not all of his decisions have worked out.  Only you and Strad are batting  1000% in hypothetical outcomes on suggested post game decisions.

I'd like to see what he can do with a relatively injury free season, or at least league average or better.    Then if he screws it up you can light my pitch fork too.

 

[Blarg]

As I said before, he has been handicapped both as the interim manager after Maddon was fired and by injuries this season but it has been a year and a half and I just don't really have any confidence that the poor decision making he has made will improve.

And it isn't about hypotheticals, it is about real in game results. Doing stupid shit like pinch running Luis Rengifo with Velazquez. It was a net zero gain in baserunning speed but takes away an option for a real gain had the game went longer and you pinch run Velazquez for a much slower player. It also removed Rengifo's bat from the lineup and replacing it with an automatic out. The entire season has been a series of these in game moves that were a net zero change on paper and results but leaves less options to work with later.

Putting Barria in high leverage situations when he is a long reliever. This is mismanaging your relievers and costing games. Leaving Estevez in at 40 pitches when he showed no control to face a left handed batter when Loup was ready to go, Then swapping out Estevez with Loup to face a series of right handed batters. That cost the Angels that game. 

It's not hypotheticals, it's bad resource managing. If he doesn't understand this now, after years as a player, coach and now manager, I don't have the confidence he will suddenly get it next year. If the Angels have a healthy roster they can't afford to give away games to sloppy in game decisions. There won't be any more excuses to fall back on.

And yes, we shall storm the castle together if he craters a good team into the ground but I think Minasian is going to make a change regardless. 

[Swordsman78]

50 minutes ago, Blarg said:

As I said before, he has been handicapped both as the interim manager after Maddon was fired and by injuries this season but it has been a year and a half and I just don't really have any confidence that the poor decision making he has made will improve.

And it isn't about hypotheticals, it is about real in game results. Doing stupid shit like pinch running Luis Rengifo with Velazquez. It was a net zero gain in baserunning speed but takes away an option for a real gain had the game went longer and you pinch run Velazquez for a much slower player. It also removed Rengifo's bat from the lineup and replacing it with an automatic out. The entire season has been a series of these in game moves that were a net zero change on paper and results but leaves less options to work with later.

Putting Barria in high leverage situations when he is a long reliever. This is mismanaging your relievers and costing games. Leaving Estevez in at 40 pitches when he showed no control to face a left handed batter when Loup was ready to go, Then swapping out Estevez with Loup to face a series of right handed batters. That cost the Angels that game. 

It's not hypotheticals, it's bad resource managing. If he doesn't understand this now, after years as a player, coach and now manager, I don't have the confidence he will suddenly get it next year. If the Angels have a healthy roster they can't afford to give away games to sloppy in game decisions. There won't be any more excuses to fall back on.

And yes, we shall storm the castle together if he craters a good team into the ground but I think Minasian is going to make a change regardless. 

Every one of those situations mentioned can be said about any manager.   Not all of those decisions can be pointed to as a factual reason the Angels lost a game.  Some of Nevins decisions did work out in the Angels favor too.   IMO managerial decisions (not handcuffed by the data guys) would result in about a +/- 3 wins at this point in the season.   This is about the league average and had very little impact on the overall season results.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Swordsman78

[greginpsca]

I think there will be big changes next season. 

[Ariamus]

6 hours ago, YouthofToday said:

Eternal mediocrity. 

That's generous.

[Ariamus]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

I think there will be big changes next season. 

Are we talking "stick everyone on a rocket and shoot it into space" big? Like, dynamite the stadium and team offices big?

[Just Sayin]

Be patient ….Rome wasn’t built in 73 years

[Just Sayin]

Sorry …Rome wasn’t built in 63 years

[Halo in Chicago]

Whoever is really calling the shots on pitching needs to be gone. If that is an analytics guy - fire him. If the pitching coach has ruined the pitchers this year - fire him. If Nevin is making the bullpen calls all on his own - fire him. Pitching has mostly been awful. 
 

Almost everyone’s worse than last year and the usage has been bizarre to put it kindly…

I’d like to see a 5 man rotation w regular scheduled turns. I do wonder how much of Detmers and Sandovals struggles relate to their schedules constantly changing to allow Ohtani to always be on 6 days…

[Hubs]

Everyone knows what I am going to say here, but I'll start with Minasian. Nevin. Montgomery. Wise (And I hoped he'd be a better pitching coach but no). Thames. 

As far as players: Loup, Escobar, Velazsquez. Renfroe is meh. Rengifo should be traded. Barria can go as he's struggling. I'd also let Cron go, and consider bringing back Grichuck, but may let him go as well.

 

But the majority of the team is gonna be here.

1B: Schanuel

2B: Drury 

3B: Rendon

SS: Neto

Catcher: O'Hoppe

CF: Trout

LF: Moniak

RF: Ward

DH: Ohtani? -- with his injury, I think the chances of him staying put skyrocketed from a low point after the deadline. I think he was in line for a huge contract, and had maybe a 10% chance of staying prior (down from 50% if they had improved after the deadline) and now while he'll get one, it's not topping Mike's by much and it will include opt-outs.

Bench: Thaiss, Moustakas (Re-sign), Urshela or comparable (Re-sign), Adell

SP: Giolito or comparable (Re-sign), Sandoval, Anderson, Detmers, Canning, Silseth

RP: Estevez, Moore (Re-Sign), Lopez (Re-Sign), Bachman, Devenski, Joyce, TBD, TBD.

 

[Swordsman78]

43 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Everyone knows what I am going to say here, but I'll start with Minasian. Nevin. Montgomery. Wise (And I hoped he'd be a better pitching coach but no). Thames. 

As far as players: Loup, Escobar, Velazsquez. Renfroe is meh. Rengifo should be traded. Barria can go as he's struggling. I'd also let Cron go, and consider bringing back Grichuck, but may let him go as well.

 

But the majority of the team is gonna be here.

1B: Schanuel

2B: Drury 

3B: Rendon

SS: Neto

Catcher: O'Hoppe

CF: Trout

LF: Moniak

RF: Ward

DH: Ohtani? -- with his injury, I think the chances of him staying put skyrocketed from a low point after the deadline. I think he was in line for a huge contract, and had maybe a 10% chance of staying prior (down from 50% if they had improved after the deadline) and now while he'll get one, it's not topping Mike's by much and it will include opt-outs.

Bench: Thaiss, Moustakas (Re-sign), Urshela or comparable (Re-sign), Adell

SP: Giolito or comparable (Re-sign), Sandoval, Anderson, Detmers, Canning, Silseth

RP: Estevez, Moore (Re-Sign), Lopez (Re-Sign), Bachman, Devenski, Joyce, TBD, TBD.

 

Why would you not "want" Rendon gone?

Your entire take loses credibility on this point alone.   Not to mention you start an entire thread just to bash Nevin.  So transparent.

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Why would you not "want" Rendon gone?

Your entire take loses credibility on this point alone.   Not to mention you start an entire thread just to bash Nevin.  So transparent.

The fact that you support him cracks me up.

The cost to get rid of Rendon outweighs what he is owed. 

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

The fact that you support him cracks me up.

The cost to get rid of Rendon outweighs what he is owed. 

I support rational thinking.  Period.

Your thread title references "want" gone.   Not who are the Angels "stuck with".
 

You twice did not include Rendon as wanting him gone.  
 

Practically every thread you start contains a dig at Nevin.   Your post count contains too much overly emotional/agenda driven content. 

[AngelStew43]

No one is going to touch Rendon's contract, so he's staying.  We couldn't even get a jar of mustard for him.  

I want to keep Giolito and Grichuk.  

Stassi and Loup can go.  Escobar, too.  I'd like to get another starter without giving up our first round pick next season.  

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

I support rational thinking.  Period.

Your thread title references "want" gone.   Not who are the Angels "stuck with".
 

You twice did not include Rendon as wanting him gone.  
 

Practically every thread you start contains a dig at Nevin.   Your post count contains too much overly emotional/agenda driven content. 

Rational is not supporting the manager who has a 107-127 record.

Rendon leaving means you have to get two third baseman, meaning signing Moustakas and another one, like Urshela. Plus when he is healthy he is still productive.

Would I trade him if someone wanted to pick up his whole or the majority of the deal? And it didn't require sacrificing a young player or prospect like Joyce or Neto? Of course, but if the Angels had to pay the entire contract, I don't see the point in essentially cutting him with that much left on his deal. 

We all have our players we don't like and the ones we do. You and I greatly differ on those we like and don't like, but it doesn't make one of us right or wrong.

 

You're not wrong, but you have been combative, smug, know it all asshat since you started posting, and no one here likes you. But keep on posting bud.

 

[Just Sayin]

12 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

IMO its too early to tell on Nevin.   I don't think there is any compelling reason to fire him.  It doesn't make sense that "someone has to take the fall" for the season record, when any rationally thinking person knows that injuries and starting pitching are the main culprits.

The players are on record in supporting him, so he has the confidence of the clubhouse, which is important for any leader.

Like all managers who have to make tough calls with uncertain outcomes, not all of his decisions have worked out.  Only you and Strad are batting  1000% in hypothetical outcomes on suggested post game decisions.

I'd like to see what he can do with a relatively injury free season, or at least league average or better.    Then if he screws it up you can light my pitch fork too.

 

“Too early to tell on Nevin”

 

”the players are on record supporting him” what are they gonna do? Say “this guy sucks” if that’s what they’re REALLY thinking.

He never was the answer.  He’s had time to show what he can do.  He’s failed….and I’d have to say he’s failed abysmally

[Angels 1961]

12 hours ago, greginpsca said:

I think there will be big changes next season. 

The more things change the more they remain the same. Halos last 8 years

[CaliforniaYankee]

I think the amount of injuries is a real cause for concern of course.  I don't think its just bad luck.

What comes to mind here is conditioning and protective equipment as well.

So I think new conditioning coaches to start out with.  They got to be scrutinizing root cause for injuries when it comes to that. This can't continue year after year.  I think getting professionals in these area, and I'm talking top people, to access the types of injuries over the years and group them and determine the root cause for these different groups of injuries and from that determine a conditioning  and strengthen programs to address those areas.

From that review of the different groups of injuries root cause analysis, the latest and greatest, state of the art protective equipment needs to determined to be help mitigate these injuries as well.  The players injury history needs to be factored in here to tailor to the needs of mitigating the injuries that a particular player may be prone to.

Next the way this organization handles pitchers and development of pitchers is definitely suspect. It is because of this that the coaching staff for pitching needs to be replaced.  Pay the best in the game to do this for you as well.  You can't win with the kind of pitching this team has.  I really believe you make can make the best improvement in this area.  This organization can't develop good pitching either.  That needs to be factored in as well when looking for good coaching personnel with the big club and especially the minor leagues.

This team can not manufacture runs, The emphasis of small ball including the art of bunting needs to strengthened.  Players can add 5 to 10 points on there average and maybe more by mixing this in as part of their batting strategy.   Also stealing basses would help to.   Just the idea that you're a threat to steal while your on base gives your team an edge.  Ricky Henderson comes to mind here as far as stealing is concerned.  He had an interesting way of reading a pitcher as well as other things and determining the best time to optimize his chances. The team really could use some coaching help in manufacturing runs.  Find some former players that were know for their contributions in these areas when they were playing.

I don't know about Nevin.  He has a good rapport with players but he's not a good strategy guy so that might be something t consider as well.

What say you ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by CaliforniaYankee