NYT Opinion Piece Suggests: Republicans Lie More Than Democrats

[Jay]

Jay, I'm not sure who is talking about wiping out tuition debt. As far as I know, Bernie (and Hillary in her "jump on the progressive bandwagon" way) is talking about making public and state universities free, just like public schools, and also decreasing interest rates.

 

notti, I get the "**** them" message I just don't agree with it, for a variety of reasons.

I would be ok with making state colleges "free" on a tuition reimbursement basis, for approved degree programs.

[Angelsjunky]

Well, we just disagree on that, nate. First of all, you paint a very black-and-white picture when everyone's situation is different. I'm guessing you haven't lived on an Indian reservation or in an inner-city projects. Yes, it is possible for folks to climb the ladder and make something of themselves, but it can be very, very hard.

 

Anyhow, I don't know the liberals you speak of, except as caricatures in the minds of conservatives. Now some folks I know veer towards what you say, but what you describe is more of a phantom in the conservative mind than a reality, imo.

 

That said, I agree with you that simply and only "giving handouts" isn't a particularly good idea. In my opinion we (the society) need to both give support, but also encouragement or incentives to work hard. It isn't either/or.

[Angelsjunky]

I would be ok with making state colleges "free" on a tuition reimbursement basis, for approved degree programs.

 

OK, we agree on this, although my guess is that we might not agree on what is an "approved degree program."

[Blarg]

Do you actually think about the stuff you say, or is it a no-filter type of thing?

 

Did you bother to read what he said or did you just feel you had to disagree on some level.

[Glen]

None of those faggy liberal degrees would be free, of course.  Only macho shit like deforestation degrees and monster-truck physics.

[Blarg]

OK, we agree on this, although my guess is that we might not agree on what is an "approved degree program."

 

I'm sure liberal arts are off Jay's list which makes sense because it spawns more liberals. Kind of a give a mouse a cookie problem.

[Jay]

It basically means, there is a choice of degree programs. Each degree program has a list of courses you must take in order to earn the degree. You can be reimbursed only for the courses on the list.

And no, the taxpayers will not be subsidizing degrees in basket weaving.

[Blarg]

None of those faggy liberal degrees would be free, of course.  Only macho shit like deforestation degrees and monster-truck physics.

 

Or maybe many of the degrees that have a pathway to renewable energy solutions or the health care industry that focuses on disease prevention or control.

 

 

You know, faggy classes.

[Glen]

From what I've seen this election season, the republicans are masters of the hard lie and the democrats are masters of the soft lie.  The hard lie is something that is utter bullshit and easy to detect. The soft lie is something that may sound a little off and requires more than the first result of a google search to disprove.  Trump has lied his ass off and flip-flopped like crazy but he's the favorite of people who complain about Obama and Hillary being liars.   Ted Cruz is absolutely full of shit but he's religious so the same people give him a pass.  Hillary is more of a standard politician, twisting in the wind and saying whatever she thinks the people in front of her at the time want to hear.  Similar to Trump but with a bit of a buffer.  Bernie is at least the most honest of the group.  I'd rather vote for him than any other, and I don't live in my mom's basement, I make a decent living, and I pay my taxes.  I would like to help lift people up and if that means I pay a bit more in taxes, **** it, I'm OK with that.  

 

That said, I want reform just as much as the conservatives.  I don't want taxes going to lifelong freeloaders.  I also know that these programs help many, many people.  There just needs to be serious reform to weed out the moochers.

[Angelsjunky]

It basically means, there is a choice of degree programs. Each degree program has a list of courses you must take in order to earn the degree. You can be reimbursed only for the courses on the list.

And no, the taxpayers will not be subsidizing degrees in basket weaving.

 

OK, but what would the choices be? And how would it be decided?

[Angelsjunky]

From what I've seen this election season, the republicans are masters of the hard lie and the democrats are masters of the soft lie.  The hard lie is something that is utter bullshit and easy to detect. The soft lie is something that may sound a little off and requires more than the first result of a google search to disprove.  Trump has lied his ass off and flip-flopped like crazy but he's the favorite of people who complain about Obama and Hillary being liars.   Ted Cruz is absolutely full of shit but he's religious so the same people give him a pass.  Hillary is more of a standard politician, twisting in the wind and saying whatever she thinks the people in front of her at the time want to hear.  Similar to Trump but with a bit of a buffer.  Bernie is at least the most honest of the group.  I'd rather vote for him than any other, and I don't live in my mom's basement, I make a decent living, and I pay my taxes.  I would like to help lift people up and if that means I pay a bit more in taxes, **** it, I'm OK with that.  

 

That said, I want reform just as much as the conservatives.  I don't want taxes going to lifelong freeloaders.  I also know that these programs help many, many people.  There just needs to be serious reform to weed out the moochers.

 

Very well said, Glen.

 

I'm a big supporter of Bernie, but if I'm worried about one thing it is not his honesty or integrity or his ideas, it is his ability to implement them in the current context.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Angelsjunky

[Jay]

I think we could probably leave it up to the states which degree programs they would offer. The level of participation would determine which programs survive. Not all schools would offer all degree programs.

[Angelsjunky]

OK, fair enough. That way Kentucky can have Monster Truck Physics and Vermont can have any number of Faggy Degrees.

[Blarg]

Here is one if the ways to reduce student costs and get them into the workforce more efficiently and that is make college what it used to be.

Back in the 30'-40's it took three years to get a bachelor's degree in a mathematic or science field. It is because the student had no mandatory elective liberal arts courses to complete that sidetracked them from the goal. Your degree included English courses but they were focused on making you a better technical writer, not an expert on 17th century French poets. That was for guys wanting to brush on their lady killing moves.

So if we strip out all of the bullshit courses and say here is the three year engineering course, paid for by, then you are getting value for the tax dollar because it went directly to the focus and not to a Starbucks barrister job.

Yeah, it puts a lot of social studies professors out if work. Maybe they can go back to school and get a degree that isn't based on mind ****ing kids and actually producing something of value.

But then, I'm a Republican with no sense of respect for the arts.

Edited February 6, 2016 by notti

[Jay]

Exactly.

Maybe we could assign a number, say, 50, as the maximum number of different degree programs offered at each school.

And for students, let's say once you have chosen a degree program, you are allowed to change to another degree program only once in a four-year period. In order to be reimbursed for a course tuition you must earn a C or better, and meet certain attendance requirements.

[Blarg]

OK, fair enough. That way Kentucky can have Monster Truck Physics and Vermont can have any number of Faggy Degrees.

Vermont specializes in maple syrup sciences. It's New Hampshire that is rainbow and unicorn degrees.

[Blarg]

I hope I get seated at your guys' table at AW Spring Training Fan Fest this year.

 

Fanfest was cancelled. Chuck is still in mourning at the loss of Jerry.

[Jay]

Vermont specializes in maple syrup sciences. It's New Hampshire that is rainbow and unicorn degrees.

And Kentucky has Bourbon sciences!

[Angelsjunky]

Vermont specializes in maple syrup sciences. It's New Hampshire that is rainbow and unicorn degrees.

 

Evidently you haven't spent much time in NH.

[Jay]

I would like to help lift people up and if that means I pay a bit more in taxes, **** it, I'm OK with that.  

The way I see it we already pay a lot, and help a lot of people. There will always be somebody who dreams up another program and tries to make us feel guilty if we don't approve of it.

[Angelsjunky]

Here is one if the ways to reduce student costs and get them into the workforce more efficiently and that is make college what it used to be.

Back in the 30'-40's it took three years to get a bachelor's degree in a mathematic or science field. It is because the student had no mandatory elective liberal arts courses to complete that sidetracked them from the goal. Your degree included English courses but they were focused on making you a better technical writer, not an expert on 17th century French poets. That was for guys wanting to brush on their lady killing moves.

So if we strip out all of the bullshit courses and say here is the three year engineering course, paid for by, then you are getting value for the tax dollar because it went directly to the focus and not to a Starbucks barrister job.

Yeah, it puts a lot of social studies professors out if work. Maybe they can go back to school and get a degree that isn't based on mind ****ing kids and actually producing something of value.

But then, I'm a Republican with no sense of respect for the arts.

 

I very much disagree with this point of view. Are you saying that education beyond pure utilitarianism is useless? That the arts and humanities are pointless? And is your seeming joke at the end actually a joke, or are you actually being honest?

[Blarg]

Evidently you haven't spent much time in NH.

 

You are right and that is why I have no problem sticking them with the liberal arts students.

 

Montana is still Forestry and Fracking Science with Minors available in Fly Fishing Tour Guides.

[Blarg]

I very much disagree with this point of view. Are you saying that education beyond pure utilitarianism is useless? That the arts and humanities are pointless? And is your seeming joke at the end actually a joke, or are you actually being honest?

 

Yes, it is useless because by the time kids get to college they have absorbed enough culture through social media that it is time to set aside playtime and be a student of something with a concrete value to an employer.

 

The arts and humanities will always be explored by the idle rich.

[Angelsjunky]

You are right and that is why I have no problem sticking them with the liberal arts students.

 

Montana is still Forestry and Fracking Science with Minors available in Fly Fishing Tour Guides.

 

NH has been considered the more libertarian/conservative counterpart the hippy/green Vermont. It is very much a "purple" state, so if you want more leftist liberal arts colleges look to VT and Massachusetts.

 

Yes, it is useless because by the time kids get to college they have absorbed enough culture through social media that it is time to set aside playtime and be a student of something with a concrete value to an employer.

 

The arts and humanities will always be explored by the idle rich.

 

I take a different view. I think we need more arts, more visionaries and philosophers. I am not raising my daughters to have "concrete value to an employer," but to find what deeply inspires them and dedicate their lives to it.

 

Faggy, I know.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Angelsjunky

[Hollyw00d]

Bullshit. I grew up in a lower middle class family (near poverty even). It is 100% effort. You either want it or don't. By giving them handouts you are only encouraging them not to try.

The problem with liberals is that they are so one dimensional. They just see it as rich kid being able to afford college and poor kid not being able too. They don't give to shits that that kids parent or grand parents or great grand parents worked their ass off to earn it. To make enough money so several generations could live comfortably and go to a top college, have health insurance, etc.

Liberals couldn't care less about rewarding hard working people. All they care about is making it easier for lazy people to live comfortably.

You're white. Stop bitching.