Who's after Scioscia?

[nate]

Lol, part of being a manager is teaching and preparing.  If his teams lack fundamentals like the ability to carry out a simple base running task or move runners over then it certainly could be his fault.  Especially since the players have changed but the results havent.

[70runner]

There aren't any candidates I'd rather have than Scioscia, who is regarded as a very good manager. 

 

Regarded by whom?...the managers he's been losing to the last couple years?

 

Scioscia's laid back style helped balance out his small ball teams who were aggressive and energetic.  The current Angel's strategy of buying premier players with huge contracts doesn't produce a hungry, aggressive team.  Short of Trout, PB, a lot of these guys are too blessed to be stressed.  Put Scioscia with a young, hungry, aggressive team like the A's and he will likely prosper.  Put him with a mature team full of satisfied millionaires who need an occasional boot up their ass, not so much.  Probably doesn't help either that the manager himself has one of those too blessed to be stressed contracts. 

 

Sure the SP sucks (and frankly Weaver returning with his 84mph fastball may not turn that around), they don't hit with RISP, and the BP generally is mush.  Symptoms, not the cause.  The manager is responsible for getting the most out of players and winning games.  Scioscia isn't getting the job done...now for over a year...despite having the best players that money can buy.    Something's wrong and it's not 25 players.

[MacNasty]

I can't. Name the players. Scioscia likes to be aggressive at the plate and on the bases but he hasn't really had teams that were primarily that "style" of hitter. This team has a good mix of speed and power. The offense is really pretty well rounded and Scioscia's biggest successes have been with that kind of mix. The problem is not the position players not fitting with Scioscia's style. The real problem starts and stops with pitching. 

 

I agree the problem starts with pitching.  But from there it goes deeper.

 

The offense is hardly lighting the league on fire.  These guys will probably start putting up more points since they are too talented not to, but they are definitely underperforming to date.

 

The defense is weak too.  Which I know irks Sciosh to no end. 

 

My take is the overall swagger of this team is just not there.  For as much talent as they have, they're not really a "team" playing as one tight unit.  Where is the edge, that hunger they used to have with that resilient team that won it all?  They didn't have a great pitching staff, far from it.  Was that edge really coming from Maddon's presence as bench coach? 

 

I have always supported Sciosh and think he's gotten a lot of unfair flak from fans, but I am seriously beginning to question whether it's time to find another leader for this team.

[Lifetime]

LOL! If a major league player lacks the ability to carry out those kind of strategies due to their skill set, there isn't anything the team's manager can do to change that.

[nate]

This isn't the Long Beach State intramural football team.  This is the major leagues, the players don't make it this far unless they possess those fundamentals. 

[Lifetime]

I agree the problem starts with pitching. But from there it goes deeper.

The offense is hardly lighting the league on fire. These guys will probably start putting up more points since they are too talented not to, but they are definitely underperforming to date.

The defense is weak too. Which I know irks Sciosh to no end.

My take is the overall swagger of this team is just not there. For as much talent as they have, they're not really a "team" playing as one tight unit. Where is the edge, that hunger they used to have with that resilient team that won it all? They didn't have a great pitching staff, far from it. Was that edge really coming from Maddon's presence as bench coach?

I have always supported Sciosh and think he's gotten a lot of unfair flak from fans, but I am seriously beginning to question whether it's time to find another leader for this team.

the offense hasn't broken out yet but my feeling is that that is related to the poor pitching too. The offense knows it has to put up better than 5 runs a game to get a win. They are pressing trying to fill the gap left by the pitching.

I liked Madden a lot but the Madden was the difference argument is dramatically over stated.

And I don't agree the defense is bad at all.

[Lifetime]

This isn't the Long Beach State intramural football team. This is the major leagues, the players don't make it this far unless they possess those fundamentals.

that's a load of crap nate. Not every player at the major league level is good at running basis or a good contact hitter. That's just not remotely true.

[Vladfan]

Sosh is considered to be one of the best managers in baseball by many GM's and other managers around the league. I have read that and heard that in many interviews.

[mp170.6]

Sosh is considered to be one of the best managers in baseball by many GM's and other managers around the league. I have read that and heard that in many interviews.

 

So what? 

 

I think the perception of other managers and GM's would change if they watched him in action everyday. 

[FabulousFabregas]

Sosh is considered to be one of the best managers in baseball by many GM's and other managers around the league. I have read that and heard that in many interviews.

It's based on his reputation built up in the 2000's, when he was one of the best managers in baseball.  He's gradually gotten worse in the last 5 years.

[mp170.6]

It's based on his reputation built up in the 2000's, when he was one of the best managers in baseball.  He's gradually gotten worse in the last 5 years.

 

This is now Scioscia's 14th season.  With few exceptions his teams generally self-destruct whenever Oakland, Seattle, and/or Texas have competitive years...2010-2013 are perfect examples of this.  Additionally, his greatest years have come with little to no competition from AL West opponents. 

 

He doesn't do well under pressure. 

[ScottT]

I don't like Scioscia's game decisions, but players respect him and want to play for him.... that is probably as valuable.  If he was fired tomorrow, I'd laugh. Good  talent.. poor start... he doesn't throw pitches or swing the bat.... two weeks of baseball.  It would be silly.  I highly doubt whoever took over would magically change things.   The team would play better, the new manager would get some credit, but they'd be playing better because they are better.    

 

Bottom line is this won't last.  They are digging a hole that may be tough to get out of, though... especially if in continues for another week or so.  

[HeavenlyHalos]

What? Is that even a word?

 

Yes, it means regardless.

[mp170.6]

I don't like Scioscia's game decisions, but players respect him and want to play for him.... that is probably as valuable.  If he was fired tomorrow, I'd laugh. Good  talent.. poor start... he doesn't throw pitches or swing the bat.... two weeks of baseball.  It would be silly.  I highly doubt whoever took over would magically change things.   The team would play better, the new manager would get some credit, but they'd be playing better because they are better.    

 

Bottom line is this won't last.  They are digging a hole that may be tough to get out of, though... especially if in continues for another week or so.  

 

Players like him because there's virtually no accountability for bad performance. 

 

Like the cool, laid back teacher you had who didn't give a crap back in the day...

[dimitrig]

Beg to differ, outside of last year's start, they really haven't underperformed their norms. 

 

Well... first... why ignore last year?

 

Second, the Angels have never really performed above their seeding in the playoffs (when they made them) and sometimes did worse. For example, they won the most games in baseball in 2008 and lost 3-1 in the first round.

[Vladfan]

It doesn't matter if it was in the 2000's or not. He is still one of the best. Just because of a slow start doesn't mean he is no longer able to manage this team. Fans are fans and want someone gone because of the slow start.

I'm done.

[RenoHalo]

I can't. Name the players. Scioscia likes to be aggressive at the plate and on the bases but he hasn't really had teams that were primarily that "style" of hitter. This team has a good mix of speed and power. The offense is really pretty well rounded and Scioscia's biggest successes have been with that kind of mix. The problem is not the position players not fitting with Scioscia's style. The real problem starts and stops with pitching. 

No it doesn't.

[Lifetime]

We'll, I didn't ignore last year. The players didn't under perform the entire year, they had a rough start - as I mentioned. 

Secon,dWell... first... why ignore last year?

 

Second, the Angels have never really performed above their seeding in the playoffs (when they made them) and sometimes did worse. For example, they won the most games in baseball in 2008 and lost 3-1 in the first round.

 

Second, the Angels have more often than not out performed projections. 

 

So them winning the most games in 2008 then losing 3-1 in the first round of the playoffs is an indication of Scioscia teams or players under performing? 

[Lifetime]

No it doesn't.

Yes it does 

[RenoHalo]

I'll elaborate, pitching is a huge deficiency on this team, but it is just one of many issues they are facing right now. If you look at the hitting stats, there are some surprisingly decent #'s in the every day lineup for a team that is 4-10:

• Pujols, Trout, Trumbo, and Jimenez are hitting .280 or above
• Those same players all are above .340 in OBP
• These four all have an OPS north of .800

That is approximately half of the regular lineup performing at or above their projected #'s so far through this brutal stretch, but yet the team is 21st in runs scored in MLB. There is a huge hole in lineup continuity, exasperated by their continuing propensity to not deliver in 'clutch situations', a problem that has been getting worse over the last two seasons. The atrocious numbers with RISP so far was also a big problem for long stretches last year, particularly early on. Great offensive teams (like we were supposed to have) more often than not score the run from 3rd with 0 outs on the next PA, a conclusion that is anything but foregone with the Angels. There have been way too many bad AB's immediately following a leadoff 2B or 1st and 3rd situation with less than 2 outs so far this season. Also, where are the power numbers? Pujols is tied with Bourjos for the team lead with 2 HR? This lineup was supposed to have the potential of 4 guys with 30+ HR this year, and yet they just went through a 5 game stretch without a single longball. This on the heels of last year's 8 or 9 game HR drought. If the team can start converting their scoring opportunities on a more consistent basis, it might (might) allow the pitchers to relax and 'get in their game' (in the Scioscia parlance), and perhaps begin to go deeper in games. 

 

If they continue to play like this, it will probably force Moreno's hand, and we will lose the best manager the team has ever had, and that makes me sad. Lifetime, I am not intending to dismiss the pitching issues, but I think that is just a part of this mess, albeit a huge one. Shit begets shit, and these guys are barely clicking on one cylinder right now. As professionals, one would have to hope that their pride will kick in at some point, and maybe they will start having more intelligent AB's in crucial situations, working the counts into their favor, and squaring it up when they get that 3-1 pitch. Or maybe, they are just horseshit....**** it, who wants pie?

[Lifetime]

And as I indicated in a previous post acknowledging that the offense was struggling somewhat, my belief is that a lot of those struggles are related to the offense trying to span the runs against gap left by poor pitching and pressing. They know they have to score a minimum of 5 runs (EVERY GAME) to have a chance of winning. It's too much to expect that out of an offense, even one that has the tools the Angels have. You seem to be trying to shift the burden on the offense saying it's causing the pitching to stress when the reality is the opposite.

 

I'm not worried about the power numbers, at all. That stuff comes. We still have the potential to have 4 guys with 30+ HR's regardless of the low count to this point..

[Mark68]

It doesn't matter if it was in the 2000's or not. He is still one of the best. Just because of a slow start doesn't mean he is no longer able to manage this team. Fans are fans and want someone gone because of the slow start.

I'm done.

It is not just the slow start this year. They came out of the gate slowly last year, too, and it ultimately cost them a shot at the postseason, along with the horrific stretch in August. This team has been underwhelming since the 2010 season, and it doesn't matter if the Angels have had good pitching (2010 & 2011), or good hitting (2012 & this year), the team seems to be performing at a level that is less than the sum of its parts.

 

That just does not add up without the common denominator, which would be the manager and coaches not having the team either prepared for the task at hand (winning ballgames) or focused on playing good baseball (hence the innumerable outs that have come on the basepaths). Some of his in-game decisions have been questionable, mainly because he's become so predictable with them (the contact play, for one).

 

Maybe it solves nothing to give Scioscia the axe. But him being here isn't solving the problem, either.

 

If he's not a part of the solution, he's part of the problem.

 

In this case, I think I'd rather have the devil I DON'T know.

[Docwaukee]

The team has struggled with RISP only.  Yes it has been a big factor to this point yet it is unlikely sustainable.  As it would be if they were succeeding with RISP to the same degree.

 

The SP lacks talent yet not to the degree that they have shown.  There are proven guys with history on their side.  They won't be great, but their overall we will see their numbers get better.

 

The Bullpen lack talent as well.  Yet it is filled with inconsistent and unproven guys that have been put into a position of maintaining leads or small deficits. 

 

I am not saying they will for sure by any means, but in all likelihood, Wilson, Vargas, Blanton and Hanson will improve.  The bullpen may not.  That is why it's my biggest concern.  Sure, some things could start to go right, but there is less precedent there with guys like Lowe, Delarosa, Roth, Richards, Jepsen, as well as a declining Scott Downs. 

 

I am not a fan of our SP but they are not this bad.  Our pen might be. 

[stormngt]

Not at all. I think Scioscia has been a root cause for our issues the past three seasons. I do not see this team being successful now or in the near future with him at the reins and I have been saying this for years.

It is his philosophies that have been engrained throughout this entire organization that have led to our demise.

Blame him for the last three seasons, can he get credit for the ten years prior to that!

 

I blasted Stoneman for letting Glaus go way back when.  I thought it was stupid move.  The team the previous year had no power, they were giving up on Guillon and I thought it was stupid to let Glaus another power hitter walk.  I called for Stoneman's head.  The next year he let's Bengie Molina go without offering arbitration    We let FA vets go and did not even get a draft pick for them.  Again, I called for the man's head and felt he was root cause on why the Angels could not get over the hump and return tot he WS.  I was not alone, Stoneman was not liked on this board.  

 

Then we all got our prayers answered.  Stoneman stepped down.  

Then came Reagins!   

 

Moral to this story, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR!

[stormngt]

Actually it was the best move. Sosh hs been awesome for this organization, but dude needs a change of scenery. A breath of fresh air, and so does the franchise.

There maybe some truth to this.  I am a supporter of Sosh, and unlike most who want his head I think he is a great manager.  I don't micro critique every move he makes.  However, his teams consistently do poorly out of the gates in April which makes me question his spring training preparation.  Even the year we won it all in 2002 we came out poorly.  

 

Also in question is if Sosh might be losing respect from the players.  Even great coaches lose connection to the players at times and a change might be needed for both.

 

The question is, if the need is so great that Moreno would be swallowing 25 million (I believe that is how much is still owed to Sosh after this season).