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Angels sign Jose Cisnero (1 year, $1.75 million) - DFA Soto


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29 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Did Soto suck that much last year?

Yes.

He had a .602 OPS (73 wRC+) in AA last year and a .736 OPS(81 wRC+) in AAA last year.

He was a way below average hitter in AA/AAA.

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You should be able to buy a minor league option.

They're doing something interesting in that they seem to be allocating about 4-5 mil of their budget to on pen tryout types that might not even make the team.  

maybe they've identified that guys in the 1-2m major league contract range have a higher probability to be good vs. the pool of guys willing to take a minor league deal and ST invite.  

It's an interesting experiment.  I hope it works.  

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29 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

You should be able to buy a minor league option.

They're doing something interesting in that they seem to be allocating about 4-5 mil of their budget to on pen tryout types that might not even make the team.  

maybe they've identified that guys in the 1-2m major league contract range have a higher probability to be good vs. the pool of guys willing to take a minor league deal and ST invite.  

It's an interesting experiment.  I hope it works.  

Guys like Joyce and Bachman might perform good enough in spring and not make  the opening day roster because they have options. 

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3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Jared Tims said he had something like a 71 OPS+ at SLC last year, so that’s pretty bad considering it’s a hitters paradise. 

Well the OPS+ would be park / league neutral. Obviously that's bad either way. Is that worth cutting him loose?

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2 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

You should be able to buy a minor league option.

They're doing something interesting in that they seem to be allocating about 4-5 mil of their budget to on pen tryout types that might not even make the team.  

maybe they've identified that guys in the 1-2m major league contract range have a higher probability to be good vs. the pool of guys willing to take a minor league deal and ST invite.  

It's an interesting experiment.  I hope it works.  

It's a good use of funds for a team with money but nothing to spend it on.

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3 hours ago, BTH said:

Yes.

He had a .602 OPS (73 wRC+) in AA last year and a .736 OPS(81 wRC+) in AAA last year.

He was a way below average hitter in AA/AAA.

Interesting that he improved at AAA.

Obviously those numbers are not great, but we are also dealing with a contact guy in a power hitters league. If he were to match an 81 wRC+ with his glove in a fill in role at the MLB level he would have some value. He's only 23.

Has the Angels 40 man roster improved that much? Seems like for the last few years they've had a hard time filling it out.

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19 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Well the OPS+ would be park / league neutral. Obviously that's bad either way. Is that worth cutting him loose?

Who would you cut over him?  The other options would be Rosenberg, Warren, Herget and all are more likely to at least have something of a role on the major league team than Soto

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8 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Tim Anderson signing soon?

I don't really want the Angels to sign him--but the larger point is that Anderson likely wouldn't want to come here, anyway.  He needs to rebuild his value and coming onto a team on which he'd likely only get significant playing time if Neto gets hurt or seriously under-performs for an extended period of time isn't the best way for him to rebuild his value.

I'm sure now you or someone else will reply with some sort of scheme to move Anderson to 2B and/or 3B and rotate him with Drury and Rendon--but, again, if I'm Anderson, I'm going to be looking for the place that's the most likely to give me playing time at my natural position.

Edited by jsnpritchett
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12 minutes ago, mmc said:

Who would you cut over him?  The other options would be Rosenberg, Warren, Herget and all are more likely to at least have something of a role on the major league team than Soto

It's a fair point and I havent examined the roster closely enough to make the call. I would say Rosenberg, Warren and Herget are no big loss, but all three are likely to contribute more in 2024 than Soto. That said I still see Soto as a prospect who is not fully formed yet and still has upside at a position of need. 

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2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I don't really want the Angels to sign him--but the larger point is that Anderson likely wouldn't want to come here, anyway.  He needs to rebuild his value and coming onto a team on which he'd likely get significant playing time if Neto gets hurt or seriously under-performs for an extended period of time isn't the best way for him to rebuild his value.

I'm sure now you or someone else will reply with some sort of scheme to move Anderson to 2B and/or 3B and rotate him with Drury and Rendon--but, again, if I'm Anderson, I'm going to be looking for the place that's the most likely to give me playing time at my natural position.

I wonder how many teams are willing to offer him a starting SS position at this point. No team who reasonably expects to contend will do that.

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5 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I wonder how many teams are willing to offer him a starting SS position at this point. No team who reasonably expects to contend will do that.

I don't disagree with you.  I'm just saying that I'm sure he's holding out for the closest thing he can get to a commitment to significant playing time at SS, even if that means taking a low-value, one-year deal with a non-contender.  I'm not sure taking a bench role with a contending team does much for him.

EDIT:  I could see something like a low-value, one-year deal with the Marlins making a lot of sense for the team and Anderson.

Edited by jsnpritchett
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6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I don't disagree with you.  I'm just saying that I'm sure he's holding out for the closest thing he can get to a commitment to significant playing time at SS, even if that means taking a low-value, one-year deal with a non-contender.  I'm not sure taking a bench role with a contending team does much for him.

EDIT:  I could see something like a low-value, one-year deal with the Marlins making a lot of sense for the team and Anderson.

I dont think anyone is going to commit to him, but he probably will find a team who is willing to give him the first look. Not sure who that is though. The Angels could do it, but it would be a pretty shocking move.

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4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I dont think anyone is going to commit to him, but he probably will find a team who is willing to give him the first look. Not sure who that is though. The Angels could do it, but it would be a pretty shocking move.

Like I said, the Marlins make a lot of sense.  Their depth chart at SS is Jon Berti (who isn't really a SS) and angels1961's favorite, Vidal Brujan--who also isn't really a pure shortstop.  If Anderson would take something like a one-year, $3M "prove it" deal, that doesn't break the bank for the Marlins, gives them a "real" SS, and allows them to use Berti and Brujan as super utility guys.  If Anderson continues to be terrible, they can dump him, eat a couple million, and pivot to either Berti or Brujan at that point.  If he's good, then they've got great value at SS and it gives some of their younger guys more time to develop--and obviously for Anderson himself, he can use a good '24 to re-enter the market and get a multi-year deal.

Edited by jsnpritchett
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11 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I don't really want the Angels to sign him--but the larger point is that Anderson likely wouldn't want to come here, anyway.  He needs to rebuild his value and coming onto a team on which he'd likely only get significant playing time if Neto gets hurt or seriously under-performs for an extended period of time isn't the best way for him to rebuild his value.

I'm sure now you or someone else will reply with some sort of scheme to move Anderson to 2B and/or 3B and rotate him with Drury and Rendon--but, again, if I'm Anderson, I'm going to be looking for the place that's the most likely to give me playing time at my natural position.

Oh I agree with you about Tim Anderson wanting to go to a place where he will get to play. That sort of team would also want him. Yes, he has said he will play 2B as that also would increase his value for himself and any team signing him. I also think halos will see if anybody wants Soto as he might end up back with them. Halos also lack depth at SS if Soto is gone. I also feel Perry is not going to what Tim Anderson might want.

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2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Like I said, the Marlins make a lot of sense.  Their depth chart at SS is Jon Berti (who isn't really a SS) and angels1961's favorite, Vidal Brujan--who also isn't really a pure shortstop.  If Anderson would take something like a one-year, $3M "prove it" deal, that doesn't break the bank for the Marlins, gives them a "real" SS, and allows them to use Berti and Brujan as super utility guys.  If Anderson continues to be terrible, they can dump him, eat a couple million, and pivot to either Berti or Brujan at that point.  If he's good, then they've got great value at SS and it gives some of their younger guys more time to develop--and obviously for Anderson himself, he can use a good '24 to re-enter the market and get a multi-year deal.

I also think maybe Marlins offer him 3 mill but another like Angels offer you 5 mill which do you take. If you play well you can earn a spot or more playing time. I just like fit with Ron Washington. The fact halos lack depth at that position. Everyone is just assuming Neto can keep that position.

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1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

I also think maybe Marlins offer him 3 mill but another like Angels offer you 5 mill which do you take. If you play well you can earn a spot or more playing time. I just like fit with Ron Washington. The fact halos lack depth at that position. Everyone is just assuming Neto can keep that position.

I'll throw it back to you and say why would Anderson want to come onto a team where he'd basically have to hope that Neto sucks or gets seriously hurt in order for him to get on the field on a regular basis?  There's no way the Angels are going to sign Anderson and immediately start giving him playing time over Neto.  Neto will be given every chance to prove himself over the course of '24.

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37 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I don't really want the Angels to sign him--but the larger point is that Anderson likely wouldn't want to come here, anyway.  He needs to rebuild his value and coming onto a team on which he'd likely only get significant playing time if Neto gets hurt or seriously under-performs for an extended period of time isn't the best way for him to rebuild his value.

I'm sure now you or someone else will reply with some sort of scheme to move Anderson to 2B and/or 3B and rotate him with Drury and Rendon--but, again, if I'm Anderson, I'm going to be looking for the place that's the most likely to give me playing time at my natural position.

It's not his defense that needs to rebuild it's value.  It's his bat.  And that's what will ultimately get him paid.  So he needs to see the field as regularly as possible regardless of his position.  And it actually add value to prove he can play a bunch of different position well.  

If I'm Tim Anderson, I'm looking to get as much money as I can at a place where I can play as much as possible because I might not have many shots in the future.  

And If I'm Tim Anderson, I hope I have someone around me that is willing to tell me the truth.  Which is that I rocked a BABIP of .375 for a four year period, a walk rate of 4% and I hit one hr in over 500 plate appearances.  

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2 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

It's not his defense that needs to rebuild it's value.  It's his bat.  And that's what will ultimately get him paid.  So he needs to see the field as regularly as possible regardless of his position.  And it actually add value to prove he can play a bunch of different position well.  

If I'm Tim Anderson, I'm looking to get as much money as I can at a place where I can play as much as possible because I might not have many shots in the future.  

And If I'm Tim Anderson, I hope I have someone around me that is willing to tell me the truth.  Which is that I rocked a BABIP of .375 for a four year period, a walk rate of 4% and I hit one hr in over 500 plate appearances.  

I'm well aware that it's his bat, not his defense, that needs to rebuild value.  I stand by everything I've said so far, and I still believe he'll be looking for a team that'll give him the best opportunity to play SS on at least a semi-regular basis. 

I still don't see any reason the Angels would be interested in him.

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23 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'll throw it back to you and say why would Anderson want to come onto a team where he'd basically have to hope that Neto sucks or gets seriously hurt in order for him to get on the field on a regular basis?  There's no way the Angels are going to sign Anderson and immediately start giving him playing time over Neto.  Neto will be given every chance to prove himself over the course of '24.

What I'm saying Tim Anderson may not have as many choices to pick which team he plays for. I agree Neto will and should be given every chance to keep SS job. Yes, going into season it's his job. Anderson has said he will play 2B so maybe to start season he is a utility player. So many injuries last year and I throw it back at you that no team is going to guarantee him playing time he will have to earn it. Maybe Marlins will be best choice for playing time at 3 mill but if Angels offer him 6 mill and you are Tim Anderson what do you do. Maybe Soto is traded to Marlins in a package deal Joyce, Soto, Ward for Edward Cabrera. I agree there is no way Angels sign Anderson and he starts over Neto.

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29 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'll throw it back to you and say why would Anderson want to come onto a team where he'd basically have to hope that Neto sucks or gets seriously hurt in order for him to get on the field on a regular basis?  There's no way the Angels are going to sign Anderson and immediately start giving him playing time over Neto.  Neto will be given every chance to prove himself over the course of '24.

he doesn't have to hope that.  There are 2100 plate appearances between 2b, 3b and SS to be had.  

The four guys to fill those spots right now AND some DH are Rengifo, Drury, Rendon and Neto.  

And we also know that Rengifo can play the OF.  Drury and Rendon could play 1b.  Schanuel is a rookie.  

It's not about if Neto gets 700 PA.  It's about the other near 3000 PA from other spots on the roster.  

Personally, I think you're overly fixated on his intention to be a SS and SS only.  

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8 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I still don't see any reason the Angels would be interested in him.

If he's willing to be a UTIL and the price is right....

Personally, I'm not a big fan.  Right now, he'd be replacing Stefanic.  So he'd probably be an upgrade.  Maybe.  

The two things we really need are a depth IFer and depth OFer.  But pretty good ones.  

I'd rather have Urshela back.  

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