Would you prefer this type of owner instead of Arte?

[aznhockeyguy]

Hopefully Arte will sell the team sooner rather than later.  The ideal owner would be someone with deep pockets and hires really smart people and stay out of the way like Cohen of the Mets and the Guggenheim Group of the Dodgers.  It's a real wild card of owners out there.  The Angels can end up with another Arte type. However, would you accept an owner that'll really invest in the infrastructure but limit payroll to say $140 million or so?  The Angels doesn't have the revenue streams like the Dodgers and New York teams and maybe the new owner will prioritize profits, thus limiting payroll.  So in essence the new potential owner will try to emulate the Rays/Guardians, where they have a very smart front office and strong infrastructure but the payroll isn't as high and will trade away fan favorite players, if they don't sign team friendly extensions. 

 

[mmc]

Yes, absolutely

[Warfarin]

45 minutes ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Hopefully Arte will sell the team sooner rather than later.  The ideal owner would be someone with deep pockets and hires really smart people and stay out of the way like Cohen of the Mets and the Guggenheim Group of the Dodgers.  It's a real wild card of owners out there.  The Angels can end up with another Arte type. However, would you accept an owner that'll really invest in the infrastructure but limit payroll to say $140 million or so?  The Angels doesn't have the revenue streams like the Dodgers and New York teams and maybe the new owner will prioritize profits, thus limiting payroll.  So in essence the new potential owner will try to emulate the Rays/Guardians, where they have a very smart front office and strong infrastructure but the payroll isn't as high and will trade away fan favorite players, if they don't sign team friendly extensions. 

 

A 140mil payroll would absolutely blow away the Rays and Guardians in terms of payroll.

But that part aside, yes, absolutely.  A large payroll enables teams to make calculated gambles, a la Pujols, Rendon, etc, but a lot of times those gambles don’t pay off.  What we need beyond all else is someone who will invest heavily in the infrastructure of the team.

 

[Stradling]

To get to $140 they’d have to trade Trout. 

[failos]

What? No

[Angel Oracle]

I just want an owner who can approach the tax threshold WHILE investing enough in the infrastructure, and only approves trades/signings and NOT initiate them.

[UndertheHalo]

An owner that limits an mlb team in the Southern California market (and probably all the existing markets) to a $140 million dollar payroll A: is lying about wanting to win and B: has an extremely dubious ability to actually afford to own and manage an MLB team.   
 

MLB doesn’t need more of these fucking worms.  The game has enough of them.  They should all be run out of the game. 
 

this entire premise is ridiculous. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[Hubs]

10 hours ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Hopefully Arte will sell the team sooner rather than later.  The ideal owner would be someone with deep pockets and hires really smart people and stay out of the way like Cohen of the Mets and the Guggenheim Group of the Dodgers.  It's a real wild card of owners out there.  The Angels can end up with another Arte type. However, would you accept an owner that'll really invest in the infrastructure but limit payroll to say $140 million or so?  The Angels doesn't have the revenue streams like the Dodgers and New York teams and maybe the new owner will prioritize profits, thus limiting payroll.  So in essence the new potential owner will try to emulate the Rays/Guardians, where they have a very smart front office and strong infrastructure but the payroll isn't as high and will trade away fan favorite players, if they don't sign team friendly extensions. 

 

There has never been a post I disagree with more. The Angels definitely have the revenue stream of a large market team, thanks in part to Arte. They have a top 5 TV contract, and normally get 3M fans. They have Asian market influence with Ohtani. 

Payroll will be top 10 with a new owner, like it has been with Arte, maybe even top 5 with a Ballmer or Lacob, but hopefully they don't cheap out on the infrastructure either. That was Arte's problem, running the organization cheaply and purchasing shiny new toys didn't lead to success.

 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

There has never been a post I disagree with more. The Angels definitely have the revenue stream of a large market team, thanks in part to Arte. They have a top 5 TV contract, and normally get 3M fans. They have Asian market influence with Ohtani. 

Payroll will be top 10 with a new owner, like it has been with Arte, maybe even top 5 with a Ballmer or Lacob, but hopefully they don't cheap out on the infrastructure either. That was Arte's problem, running the organization cheaply and purchasing shiny new toys didn't lead to success.

 

Ballmer yes, but can Lacob bring enough net worth with him via partners?   Lacob only has around $1.5-$2 billion net worth.

[failos]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Ballmer yes, but can Lacob bring enough net worth with him via partners?   Lacob only has around $1.5-$2 billion net worth.

But what about Lacob + investment partners? 

[Angel Oracle]

45 minutes ago, failos said:

But what about Lacob + investment partners? 

That’s the concern.

How much money with those investment partners can he bring in?

If it’s just matching his net worth, it won’t work.

The cumulative net worth should likely be at least twice what Arte Moreno is worth.

[greginpsca]

Whoever the new owner is, he will have a several issues to deal with. How much debt will he have? Remember, Arte had no debt. This could hinder cash flow. Then, there is the stadium issue. This issue could be more expensive than buying the team. Then the owner will have to deal with a long term solution on a tv deal, so fans can actually watch games. Ballys has been rumored to want to sell, as they have money problems of their own.  Also, will the radio station be included in the sale? I am guessing that it will be.  So i am hoping the new owner is worth 2-3 times wealthier than Arte. Some interested parties might be worth 8-10 billion, but have only about 10% of that wealth not tied up. I am hoping we get someone flush with available cash.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Ballmer yes, but can Lacob bring enough net worth with him via partners?   Lacob only has around $1.5-$2 billion net worth.

Lacob would head an investment group, similar to Guggenheim. He'd probably personally buy something like 20-25% of the team. There could be 20 others in for a few million-200M or less, similar to Guggenheim. Mark Walter's net worth is anywhere between 1.75 and 5.2 Billion. Similar to Lacob.

Moreno could even stay on as part of the ownership group. He is estimated at 4.1B, mostly because of the Angels 2.5B valuation.

And again, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney came around again and put up a minority stake in the team. They have a vested interest in getting the Angels to Long Beach or Tustin another spot, because the Platinum Triangle land is worth more to them than any other company.

 

[Hubs]

Just now, greginpsca said:

Whoever the new owner is, he will have a several issues to deal with. How much debt will he have? Remember, Arte had no debt. This could hinder cash flow. Then, there is the stadium issue. This issue could be more expensive than buying the team. Then the owner will have to deal with a long term solution on a tv deal, so fans can actually watch games. Ballys has been rumored to want to sell, as they have money problems of their own.  Also, will the radio station be included in the sale? I am guessing that it will be.  So i am hoping the new owner is worth 2-3 times wealthier than Arte. Some interested parties might be worth 8-10 billion, but have only about 10% of that wealth tied up. I am hoping we get someone flush with available cash.

The Angels TV contract at 3B over 20 years is at least an average of $150M per year before they sell a ticket or a Jersey. If a ticket costs average $31...at 3M sold that's another 90M in ticket revenue. They also have concession revenue of at least 100M, so minimum, they're taking 350M a year in revenue, and so debt service will not be an issue.

[aznhockeyguy]

2 hours ago, Hubs said:

There has never been a post I disagree with more. The Angels definitely have the revenue stream of a large market team, thanks in part to Arte. They have a top 5 TV contract, and normally get 3M fans. They have Asian market influence with Ohtani. 

Payroll will be top 10 with a new owner, like it has been with Arte, maybe even top 5 with a Ballmer or Lacob, but hopefully they don't cheap out on the infrastructure either. That was Arte's problem, running the organization cheaply and purchasing shiny new toys didn't lead to success.

 

 

These are all assumptions.  Arte is worth 4 billion and can afford an increase in payroll but doesn't and this season's payroll is 9/10th depending on where you look at around 210 million.  If Arte won't do it, it's not outside the realm of possibility that a new owner will not increase payroll and actually decrease it to recoup some of the purchase price.  Just because the team gets top 5 revenue doesn't mean an owner will spend it, just like Arte is doing. 

[greginpsca]

Just now, Hubs said:

The Angels TV contract at 3B over 20 years is at least an average of $150M per year before they sell a ticket or a Jersey. If a ticket costs average $31...at 3M sold that's another 90M in ticket revenue. They also have concession revenue of at least 100M, so minimum, they're taking 350M a year in revenue, and so debt service will not be an issue.

If Bally's goes belly up, they have no tv deal.

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, aznhockeyguy said:

 

These are all assumptions.  Arte is worth 4 billion and can afford an increase in payroll but doesn't and this season's payroll is 9/10th depending on where you look at around 210 million.  If Arte won't do it, it's not outside the realm of possibility that a new owner will not increase payroll and actually decrease it to recoup some of the purchase price.  Just because the team gets top 5 revenue doesn't mean an owner will spend it, just like Arte is doing. 

In businesses like the Angels they don't actually want to turn a giant profit, they want to make a little money and increase the value of the company to simply avoid taxes.

Anyone except Dr. Shin-Soong (because of his inept management at the Times, look it up) is an improvement over Arte's bare bones infrastructure.

Dodgers front office includes at least 30 names. Angels list 7.

 

Executive Officers

Owner & Chairman: Mark Walter

President & CEO: Stan Kasten

President, Baseball Operations: Andrew Friedman

Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer: Bob Wolfe

Executive Vice President & General Counsel: Sam Fernandez

Executive Vice President & Chief Marketing Officer: Lon Rosen

Executive Vice President, Planning & Development: Janet Marie Smith

Baseball Operations

Executive Vice President & General Manager: Brandon Gomes

Sr. Vice President, Baseball Operations: Josh Byrnes

Vice President & Assistant General Manager: Jeffrey Kingston

Vice President & Assistant General Manager: Alex Slater

Vice President, Assistant General Manager & Baseball Legal Counsel: Damon Jones

Vice President, Scouting: David Finley

Vice President, International Scouting: Ismael Cruz

Vice President, Amateur Scouting: Billy Gasparino

Vice President, Player Personnel: Galen Carr

Vice President, Player Performance: Brandon McDaniel

Sr. Director, Baseball Administration: Ellen Harrigan

Sr. Director, Team Travel: Scott Akasaki

Sr. Director, Baseball Resources: Duncan Webb

Director, Player Development: William Rhymes

Director, Minor League Player Performance: Brian Stoneberg

Director, Baseball Strategy and Information: Michael Voltmer

Director, Baseball Systems Applications: Brian McBurney

Director, Baseball Systems Platform: John Focht

Director, Performance Science: Megan Schroeder

Director, Specialized Performance Programs: Eric Potterat

Director, Clubhouse Operations: Alex Torres

Director, Strong Mind Cultural Development: Leo Ruiz

Assistant Director, Player Development: Matt McGrath

Assistant Director, Amateur Scouting: Zachary Fitzpatrick

Assistant Director, International Scouting: Matthew Doppelt

Assistant Director, Baseball Strategy and Information: Ethan Levitt

Principal Research Scientist, Performance Science: David Hill

Senior Developer II, Baseball Systems: Jonathan Funkhouser

Senior Analyst, Baseball Strategy and Information: Craig Weinhaus

Senior Analyst, Baseball Strategy and Information: Sam Elias

 

[Hubs]

I'm not saying the Angels dont have employees in these areas but this is just some of what is listed on mlb.com, provided by the Dodgers, one would assume.

[Blarg]

13 hours ago, aznhockeyguy said:

The Angels doesn't have the revenue streams like the Dodgers and New York teams and maybe the new owner will prioritize profits, thus limiting payroll

The Angels are ranked 9th in revenue streams, basically the top 30% in baseball and you want them to squander that to emulate the Ray's and Guardians that make round $70 million less but invest less in the team and keep the profits. This makes no sense. The Angels have their budget based on a higher income and should utilize that to improve the team. 

[Hubs]

8 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

If Bally's goes belly up, they have no tv deal.

Bally's will not go belly up. They want to sell some of the networks, not all. 

Sinclair/Diamond is losing money on its 10.6B purchase, largely due to cable rights fees. Sinclair is worth 19.05 today in common stock, down from the 30's or so...They have a market cap of 1.33B. In 2020, their annual revenue was just short of 6 Billion.

A new regional sports network owner, whether it's MLB or the Angels/Clippers/Ducks themselves, will still bring in as much revenue as the current deal, if not more.

[aznhockeyguy]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

In businesses like the Angels they don't actually want to turn a giant profit, they want to make a little money and increase the value of the company to simply avoid taxes.

Anyone except Dr. Shin-Soong (because of his inept management at the Times, look it up) is an improvement over Arte's bare bones infrastructure.

Dodgers front office includes at least 30 names. Angels list 7.

 

Not sure what the number of front office people has to do with player payroll but ok. 

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

The Angels are ranked 9th in revenue streams, basically the top 30% in baseball and you want them to squander that to emulate the Ray's and Guardians that make round $70 million less but invest less in the team and keep the profits. This makes no sense. The Angels have their budget based on a higher income and should utilize that to improve the team. 

You just never know with a new owner.  The new owner might prioritize profits/making money like Jeter's ownership group did when they first took ownership of the Marlins. Again, just because a team has top 10 revenue, doesn't mean a new owner will spend.  Arte said and did the right things when he first became owner. Once they become owner, they'll start doing what they want to the team.  I certainly hope not, but just because the Angels are top 10 in revenue doesn't necessarily mean a new owner will spend that way.  I don't want the Angels to decrease payroll, I'm just asking a HYPOTHETICAL of a new possible owner that might prioritize profit and smart spending instead of Arte who splashes money on shiny hitters and skimps out on everything else.

[Hubs]

8 minutes ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Not sure what the number of front office people has to do with player payroll but ok. 

... of Arte who splashes money on shiny hitters and skimps out on everything else.

Number of Front Office Personnel in player development, scouting, etc.  is one of your primary complaints no? Or do you mean something else by infrastructure? 

Arte didn't focus on building through the minors...and the team suffered for it.

[aznhockeyguy]

36 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Number of Front Office Personnel in player development, scouting, etc.  is one of your primary complaints no? Or do you mean something else by infrastructure? 

Arte didn't focus on building through the minors...and the team suffered for it.

Right that's what I mean about infrastructure but it goes deeper than that.  Scouting, minor league coaches, baseball ops people, etc. etc. There's a small chance a new owner won't have deep pockets and cut payroll and prioritize profit, but will invest in infrastructure instead.  I would rather have an owner like that than Arte.  Ideally the Angels new owner will be like Cohen and Guggenheim group, but there's not too many people like that.