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Looking at it more and more, I think the Angels match up pretty well with the Pirates for a trade. I would like to see what it would take to either get Trevor Williams or Kyle Crick. Neither of them are #1 type pitchers (Crick is a pen arm) and both have control until 2023. I know Crick struggled for a year with the Giants as a starter, but since he’s found some success as a reliever, I’d highly consider trying to stretch him out again  if it doesn’t work, send him back to the pen.

 

They need position players and we need pitchers. 

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Crick's control issues are a little worrisome, as is all the contact hitters make off Williams, but yeah, either are viable options depending on the cost. 

I like Jordan Lyles and Francisco Liriano as well - both are on expiring contracts.

Liriano has been solid out of the pen (the Astros bought him for that a couple years ago and it didn't work, maybe he's starting to figure it out) as he's posted a 3.12 ERA in 47 games/49 IP, with a 1.29 WHIP and 25 BB to 46 K. 
Lyles' 5.36 ERA isn't very appealing - but he's striking out almost 10 per 9 innings. He's had an awful July, but before that, was rolling with a 3.71 ERA in 13 GS.

Honestly, I bet the Pirates would take Taylor Ward in a flash for both - and it'd be a bit of an overpay from the Angels but...

...if you pair that trade with Marsh+SP prospect+low-level guys for Stroman or Ray (reasonable) the Angels staff would look pretty solid pretty quick. 

Rotation: 1) Stroman/Ray, 2) Heaney, 3) Canning, 4) Lyles, 5) Pena with Barria/Suarez/Sandoval/Ramirez/Peters/Tropeano as depth
Bullpen: Robles, Buttrey, Bedrosian, Anderson, Liriano, Ramirez, Garcia with Middleton, etc.

Edited by totdprods
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22 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Crick's control issues are a little worrisome, as is all the contact hitters make off Williams, but yeah, either are viable options depending on the cost. 

I like Jordan Lyles and Francisco Liriano as well - both are on expiring contracts.

Liriano has been solid out of the pen (the Astros bought him for that a couple years ago and it didn't work, maybe he's starting to figure it out) as he's posted a 3.12 ERA in 47 games/49 IP, with a 1.29 WHIP and 25 BB to 46 K. 
Lyles' 5.36 ERA isn't very appealing - but he's striking out almost 10 per 9 innings. He's had an awful July, but before that, was rolling with a 3.71 ERA in 13 GS.

Honestly, I bet the Pirates would take Taylor Ward in a flash for both - and it'd be a bit of an overpay from the Angels but...

...if you pair that trade with Marsh+SP prospect+low-level guys for Stroman or Ray (reasonable) the Angels staff would look pretty solid pretty quick. 

Rotation: 1) Stroman/Ray, 2) Heaney, 3) Canning, 4) Lyles, 5) Pena with Barria/Suarez/Sandoval/Ramirez/Peters/Tropeano as depth
Bullpen: Robles, Buttrey, Bedrosian, Anderson, Liriano, Ramirez, Garcia with Middleton, etc.

Both are pending free agents so I think that goes away from Epplers' plan with finding control. Although I see your note about the second trade. I don't think Ward would be dealt for two rentals. Any chance they would part ways with a pitcher with a little more control? Maybe a trade with Miami would work better?

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19 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Both are pending free agents so I think that goes away from Epplers' plan with finding control. Although I see your note about the second trade. I don't think Ward would be dealt for two rentals. Any chance they would part ways with a pitcher with a little more control? Maybe a trade with Miami would work better?

That was the Marsh+ for Ray/Stroman deal. 

I don't think Eppler will shy away from nabbing useful arms that are FA at year's end if they come at a very cheap price. Taylor Ward might be a cheap price. 
He's increasingly getting squeezed out of significant playing time in Anaheim - Adell will pass him in the OF depth chart soon. Goodwin, Fletcher, Rengifo, Hermosillo, and Lund can all play LF.
3B is locked in between Fletcher, La Stella, Rengifo, Thaiss, and Cozart. Pujols has 1B down, with Thaiss, Bour, Walsh, all ahead of Ward there too. Ohtani/Pujols have DH. Rojas is likely a 1B/DH primarily, so he fits there too. La Stella and Calhoun could play 1B. 

Basically, I think Ward is one of our main trade pieces this summer/winter, and it makes sense for Eppler to cash him in on the best pitching value he can find. 
I"m sure he'd prefer to swap Ward in a package for a controllable arm such as someone from Miami, but we don't know how other teams value Ward. Maybe Miami really likes him and does part with a Caleb Smith or Trevor Richards in a package with him, maybe not. 

Ultimately, this next week, I think Eppler is going to have to pull the trigger on the best deal he'll get for a Ward-focused package - and maybe the best he gets is a rental offer, such as Lyles/Liriano or Tanner Roark. 
And while yeah, bummer those guys are FA, perhaps acquiring them now gives the Angels an edge at re-signing one to be their cheap 2020 #5, and maybe they were already in those plans. 
If that was the only trade we made this next week, I wouldn't be too happy - would have rather kept Ward for depth - but if this deal was made in addition to a deal for a better/controlled arm, then it might just be the boost the 2019 team needs and best way to make most of Ward's value.

Edited by totdprods
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14 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That was the Marsh+ for Ray/Stroman deal. 

I don't think Eppler will shy away from nabbing useful arms that are FA at year's end if they come at a very cheap price. Taylor Ward might be a cheap price. 
He's increasingly getting squeezed out of significant playing time in Anaheim - Adell will pass him in the OF depth chart soon. 3B is locked in between Fletcher, La Stella, Rengifo, Thaiss, and Cozart. 
Pujols has 1B down, with Thaiss, Bour, Walsh, all ahead of Ward there too. Ohtani/Pujols have DH. Rojas is likely a 1B/DH primarily, so he fits there too. La Stella and Calhoun could play 1B. 

Basically, I think Ward is a trade piece this summer/winter, and it makes sense for Eppler to cash him in on the best pitching value he can find. 
I"m sure he'd prefer to swap Ward for a controllable arm such as someone from Miami, but we don't know how other teams value Ward. Maybe Miami really likes him and does part with a Caleb Smith or Trevor Richards in a package with him, maybe not. 

Ultimately, I think Eppler is going to have to pull the trigger on the best deal he'll get for Ward - and maybe the best he gets is a rental offer, such as Lyles/Liriano or Tanner Roark. 
And while yeah, bummer those guys are FA, perhaps acquiring them now gives the Angels an edge at re-signing one to be their cheap 2020 #5, and maybe they were already in those plans. 
If it was the only trade we made this next week, I wouldn't be too happy - would have rather kept Ward for depth - but if this deal was made in addition to a deal for a better/controlled arm, then it might just be the boost the 2019 team needs and best way to make most of Ward's value.

Yes i see that.

Anyways, I agree 100%. Eppler is coming to a road block with an overflow of talent (infield specifically) that is knocking on the door. It does worry me that he might be reluctant to move them or he doesn't know which one to move. Jones is by far the odd man out. Specially with Eppler signing 2 more top infield prospects in the wings. Wilson was a college player so he can shoot through the system a little quicker. Plus, with Rengifo, Fletcher and LaStella, it seems like Jones is absolutely an odd man out and could be dealt before value fades (pending another bad year).

The one main reason why I feel like Eppler won't trade any top prospects (Marsh, Suarez, Thaiss), is the need for so much pitching with other teams. Those three pieces could make a major impact to the club within 2-3 years when we're making a serious run. This year is not a serious run. I'm not talking about a decline of Upton, but Pujols will be gone and Upton has run into some health issues. Having young cost controlled talent enables the team to spend money where it's needed and with Pujols' contract coming off the books we can add another #1-3 starter with that money. 

I totally understand the move of Marsh as a center piece for Stroman/Ray/Other, but given the market, we'd have to overpay wayyyyy to much for it. Our prospects would need to outbid the Astros, Yankees and every other playoff team looking for top pitching.

So you're right. Maybe a different package like Ward, Jones, Barria, Yan, and maybe even Adams gets a decent #2-3 arm. But I don't think Eppler wants to trade Marsh. 

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10 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Yes i see that.

Anyways, I agree 100%. Eppler is coming to a road block with an overflow of talent (infield specifically) that is knocking on the door. It does worry me that he might be reluctant to move them or he doesn't know which one to move. Jones is by far the odd man out. Specially with Eppler signing 2 more top infield prospects in the wings. Wilson was a college player so he can shoot through the system a little quicker. Plus, with Rengifo, Fletcher and LaStella, it seems like Jones is absolutely an odd man out and could be dealt before value fades (pending another bad year).

The one main reason why I feel like Eppler won't trade any top prospects (Marsh, Suarez, Thaiss), is the need for so much pitching with other teams. Those three pieces could make a major impact to the club within 2-3 years when we're making a serious run. This year is not a serious run. I'm not talking about a decline of Upton, but Pujols will be gone and Upton has run into some health issues. Having young cost controlled talent enables the team to spend money where it's needed and with Pujols' contract coming off the books we can add another #1-3 starter with that money. 

I totally understand the move of Marsh as a center piece for Stroman/Ray/Other, but given the market, we'd have to overpay wayyyyy to much for it. Our prospects would need to outbid the Astros, Yankees and every other playoff team looking for top pitching.

So you're right. Maybe a different package like Ward, Jones, Barria, Yan, and maybe even Adams gets a decent #2-3 arm. But I don't think Eppler wants to trade Marsh. 

Agree on Jones. If he closes this year poorly, his value is about nil, and especially so with a bad year next year. Couple that with the fact the Angels have to add him to the 40-man or risk losing him to the Rule 5 this winter, and it makes his situation complicated. 
He doesn't have a lot of value, but a team with payroll and 40-man space might put a smidge of value on him in a deal. Not a major piece, but a decent final piece of a trade. 

I don't think Eppler wants to trade Marsh, but he might not have a choice if he wants an impact arm, and if that's the case, there are worse situations for the Angels to be in. The current OF is set. Adell is nearly ready. Calhoun could be kept in some capacity if they're really worried. 
Lund, Hermosillo, Goodwin, Martinez can hold down the gap in the near-future, and by the time we would have hoped Marsh was establishing himself, hopefully aggressive promotions have Knowles, Adams, Deveaux getting close.

I'm not sold that we'd necessarily be outbid - there's a lot of pitching theoretically available - Bumgarner, Ray, Greinke, Stroman, Syndergaard, Bauer, Marlins pitching, Sanchez, Wheeler, rentals, Minor, Lynn, - and ultimately a few teams will opt to hold onto their prospects.

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Anything to finally get pitching in here that can keep a sub 4.50 ERA/sub 1.30 WHIP, and also exceed 150 innings on a consistent enough basis 

Only TWO pitchers here have done both once each since 2016.   Shoe in 2016 and Heaney in 2018

And Heaney was likely ill advised to pitch 180 innings in 2018, due to lack of work over the previous two seasons.  

Everything is in place (solid hitting, solid defense, solid enough pen, solid enough farm).

The time is NOW through the off-season.  

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I'd like to see if Eppler can get creative and find a way to trade for a controllable pitcher through 2020+ by trading players NOT named Marsh or Thaiss. 

What i'd like to see is a package involving names such as Ward, Jones, Rojas, Hermosillo, Yan, Lund, or possibly Barria, Adams or Knowles. I'm not saying trade all of them, but maybe some can be used. 

Package some of those names for a #2 or #3 starter and then decline Calhoun's option in the offseason to save $14M to be used to spend for a #1 Starter. Like Cole or someone

Starting rotation for 2020 looks like Cole, Ohtani, *Pitcher from trade, Heaney, Canning, Suarez/Pena/Barria/Peters/Tropeano

If this happens, the rotation from this year to next is way different and suddenly way deeper. We could be making our first serious playoff push for 2020.

 

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5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I have zero issue trading Thiass, especially if that pitcher is here next year as well.  

I guess that's true if Walsh is ready to step up given his value being a pitcher as well. Pujols is officially getting less playing time and I don't want to have a revolving circle with who plays first. Either Walsh, Ward or Thaiss. And if they find the answer, then the other two can be shopped around. Thaiss has more value than both of them combined so maybe Thaiss.....

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