DCAngelsFan

This.
Like you said, the "right" thing to do (other than have a pipeline of players in the minors that we drafted and developed from the US and internationally, and not to make non-productive signings) might've been to trade Ohtani last season for a "big haul"
And maybe that would've worked out for us, eventually.  
Trading him this year to someone who might be willing to overpay might have *still* been the right thing to do.  
But it would mean he does all the things he does on the daily, maybe reach 62 and get another MVP -  in another uniform. 
The angst over seeing Ohtani perform his feats in another uniform, and almost certainly not coming back, would've killed our fans' collective souls.  
If you wanted to send a message to him that you're in it to win it?  You make that trade.  If you want him to re-sign here - which may *also* be a mistake, you make that trade.
It's very high-risk - if we don't make the playoffs and he signs elsewhere, it'll be kind of a disaster.  (this team really, really, really needs to figure out how to find and develop talent better)
But making that trade might've been the only way to keep him an Angel for life - and might be the last chance for the Angels to make a run at the playoffs for a long while.
It'll probably not work out - but then again, maybe it will.
What was that thing from 2002?  Oh yeah, OGAAT.
 

This.
Like you said, the "right" thing to do (other than have a pipeline of players in the minors that we drafted and developed from the US and internationally, and not to make non-productive signings) might've been to trade Ohtani last season for a "big haul"
And maybe that would've worked out for us, eventually.  
Trading him this year to someone who might be willing to overpay might have *still* been the right thing to do.  
But it would mean he does all the things he does on the daily, maybe reach 62 and get another MVP -  in another uniform. 
The angst over seeing Ohtani perform his feats in another uniform, and almost certainly not coming back, would've killed our fans' collective souls.  
If you wanted to send a message to him that you're in it to win it?  You make that trade.  If you want him to re-sign here - which may *also* be a mistake, you make that trade.
It's very high-risk - if we don't make the playoffs and he signs elsewhere, it'll be kind of a disaster.  (this team really, really, really needs to figure out how to find and develop talent better)
But making that trade might've been the only way to keep him an Angel for life - and might be the last chance for the Angels to make a run at the playoffs for a long while.
It'll probably not work out - but then again, maybe it will.
What was that thing from 2002?  Oh yeah, OGAAT.
 

This.
Like you said, the "right" thing to do (other than have a pipeline of players in the minors that we drafted and developed from the US and internationally, and not to make non-productive signings) might've been to trade Ohtani last season for a "big haul"
And maybe that would've worked out for us, eventually.  
Trading him this year to someone who might be willing to overpay might have *still* been the right thing to do.  
But it would mean he does all the things he does on the daily, maybe reach 62 and get another MVP -  in another uniform. 
The angst over seeing Ohtani perform his feats in another uniform, and almost certainly not coming back, would've killed our fans' collective souls.  
If you wanted to send a message to him that you're in it to win it?  You make that trade.  If you want him to re-sign here - which may *also* be a mistake, you make that trade.
It's very high-risk - if we don't make the playoffs and he signs elsewhere, it'll be kind of a disaster.  (this team really, really, really needs to figure out how to find and develop talent better)
But making that trade might've been the only way to keep him an Angel for life - and might be the last chance for the Angels to make a run at the playoffs for a long while.
It'll probably not work out - but then again, maybe it will.
What was that thing from 2002?  Oh yeah, OGAAT.
 

His symptoms were terrifying.  I agree, I don't think it's that pitchers figured him out, or that his skills evaporated.
I think he was injured, neurologically, and it may well be career-ending.
I do feel badly for him, and I hope he can continue to work on his recovery, and that the Angels show the grace to keep him in the minors, and let him try.
 

This.
Like you said, the "right" thing to do (other than have a pipeline of players in the minors that we drafted and developed from the US and internationally, and not to make non-productive signings) might've been to trade Ohtani last season for a "big haul"
And maybe that would've worked out for us, eventually.  
Trading him this year to someone who might be willing to overpay might have *still* been the right thing to do.  
But it would mean he does all the things he does on the daily, maybe reach 62 and get another MVP -  in another uniform. 
The angst over seeing Ohtani perform his feats in another uniform, and almost certainly not coming back, would've killed our fans' collective souls.  
If you wanted to send a message to him that you're in it to win it?  You make that trade.  If you want him to re-sign here - which may *also* be a mistake, you make that trade.
It's very high-risk - if we don't make the playoffs and he signs elsewhere, it'll be kind of a disaster.  (this team really, really, really needs to figure out how to find and develop talent better)
But making that trade might've been the only way to keep him an Angel for life - and might be the last chance for the Angels to make a run at the playoffs for a long while.
It'll probably not work out - but then again, maybe it will.
What was that thing from 2002?  Oh yeah, OGAAT.
 

His symptoms were terrifying.  I agree, I don't think it's that pitchers figured him out, or that his skills evaporated.
I think he was injured, neurologically, and it may well be career-ending.
I do feel badly for him, and I hope he can continue to work on his recovery, and that the Angels show the grace to keep him in the minors, and let him try.
 

This.
Like you said, the "right" thing to do (other than have a pipeline of players in the minors that we drafted and developed from the US and internationally, and not to make non-productive signings) might've been to trade Ohtani last season for a "big haul"
And maybe that would've worked out for us, eventually.  
Trading him this year to someone who might be willing to overpay might have *still* been the right thing to do.  
But it would mean he does all the things he does on the daily, maybe reach 62 and get another MVP -  in another uniform. 
The angst over seeing Ohtani perform his feats in another uniform, and almost certainly not coming back, would've killed our fans' collective souls.  
If you wanted to send a message to him that you're in it to win it?  You make that trade.  If you want him to re-sign here - which may *also* be a mistake, you make that trade.
It's very high-risk - if we don't make the playoffs and he signs elsewhere, it'll be kind of a disaster.  (this team really, really, really needs to figure out how to find and develop talent better)
But making that trade might've been the only way to keep him an Angel for life - and might be the last chance for the Angels to make a run at the playoffs for a long while.
It'll probably not work out - but then again, maybe it will.
What was that thing from 2002?  Oh yeah, OGAAT.
 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/angels-bet-on-themselves-acquire-giolito-and-lopez-to-bolster-playoff-hopes/
Particularly this part:
What an interesting moment for the Angels. They almost have to reach the postseason this year. If they don't, they probably lose Ohtani and if Perry has half a brain, which he does, then he'll realize at that point the best thing to do is rebuild in the hopes of being competitive in 3-4 years (sorry, Trout).
So, yeah. The next two months are huge, regardless of the outcome. Makes things interesting!

He clearly didn't come all the way back, and it sucks for him - it must be emotionally really difficult to go thru what he has.  I feel for him.  
I hope the Angels will support him as he tries to recover.
 
 

Pretty great day so far  - Shohei gets an economical complete game 1-hitter, Ward is looking good (we need some hot hitters to carry us thru the inevitable days a starter blows up), we pick up a solid SP, and perhaps best of all, we can look at a baseball website again without everyone in the planet speculating about / openly cheering for an Ohtani trade, usually with some snark directed at the Angels.  
Whatever happens from here on out, maybe we can just enjoy baseball, and leave the offseason for the offseason.
 
 
 

Pretty great day so far  - Shohei gets an economical complete game 1-hitter, Ward is looking good (we need some hot hitters to carry us thru the inevitable days a starter blows up), we pick up a solid SP, and perhaps best of all, we can look at a baseball website again without everyone in the planet speculating about / openly cheering for an Ohtani trade, usually with some snark directed at the Angels.  
Whatever happens from here on out, maybe we can just enjoy baseball, and leave the offseason for the offseason.
 
 
 

Wow, Heyman with the insightful analysis.
 

I still prefer the Sunday day game with after game admission to Disneyland included.

I think it was the allure of hearing a Boston woman with a heavy accent yell "Kike" when he comes to the plate.

The last thing this team needs is Moreno immersing himself into anything else.  If Perry wants to remake the training staff fine, but I'd rather Arte let the baseball people work.

They better not do the Angel thing and lose 2/3 to Pittsburgh now.
They played Houston well even with the tough losses. There was fight.

I would very much like to see Ohtani play out his career as a Angel. But to do that ownership has to invest more money in player development, scouting and coaching to pump cheap, quality players into the roster on a yearly basis through the farm.
Moreno has not shown the ability to make those commitments and has stubbornly refused to sell the team so there is not a future for Ohtani in this organization if his emphasis is on winning. 
He will not offer a home town discount, he will walk. I can't stop that by wishing.  

There was a whiff of that when he was in the Nationals minor-league system his first season or two - they were clearly frustrated with him, to the point I thought maybe we could try a "buy-low" trade for him.
But whatever frustration the Nats had with him, they kinda got over, obviously -  but still I sensed there was always a little bit of distance there.

There was a whiff of that when he was in the Nationals minor-league system his first season or two - they were clearly frustrated with him, to the point I thought maybe we could try a "buy-low" trade for him.
But whatever frustration the Nats had with him, they kinda got over, obviously -  but still I sensed there was always a little bit of distance there.

Hurley struck out almost 40% of the time in summer wood leagues.  If recent history is any indication that likely didn't sit well with the minor league people -- Rios by comparison posted a .480 OBP in summer leagues.

I love that this article spends multiple paragraphs explaining why Renfroe has been a bust with the Angels, yet still frames it as a possibility that the Angels can get a "quality return" for him.

The simple fact is that this team has significant holes and cannot be hamstrung by a $50M/year contract.  Not with Moreno at the helm.  If Moreno stays, Ohtani has to leave.  If a new owner comes in and raises the payroll significantly, not just player payroll but scouting, perhaps it makes sense to pay Ohtani a half billion dollars.  Otherwise it’s not.
We all know this.  

If it means all the whiny douches are going to quit posting it's almost worth it

I knew the blown dp by Fletcher was going to lead to a crooked number.
Wonder what's worth watching on TV right now?
 
 

There is a lot of anecdotal info and observation in regard to Mike Trout's ability to handle high fastball.   There always has been.  It's been his 'kryptonite' for years.  Yet until recently, he was still putting up hall of fame numbers.  Why now, all of a sudden, is he struggling, and does it have to do with attacking him up in the zone?  How's he performing on pitches up in the zone?  How's he performing on pitches up and out of the zone?  Is he swinging at each of them more than he used to?  
I think our eyes are telling us that they are, not very good, even worse, and yes.  But do our eyes deceive us? 
First off, I would like to add that Trout has always had a bit of a complicated setup.  Leg kick.  Hands high.  Lots of timing mechanism to get things in the right place.  But once he does, that swing is a thing of beauty.  Over the years though, we seen have have these streaks where he's working on getting that front foot down on time.  Something he's been quoted on several times.   The swing hasn't changed as of yet.  A little video from 2019 to 2021 to now shows pretty much the exact same setup and trigger points. 
I've always felt like his approach was sort of the reverse of many in that he made a point to be on breaking balls and off speed while adjusting to the fastball - if you will.  I'm not sure if that has changed. 
One thing we know for sure is that he's swinging more in general (44.7% of the time in 2023 compared to his career avg of 38.8%) and that's been happening since he returned from injury last year.  Another thing we know is that he's swinging more at balls in the zone (68.2% in 2023 vs. 56.4% career) and he's still  among the top in the league in terms of offering at pitches out of the zone - right in line with his career.  But all of the above is for all pitches.  Not just fastballs.  
So let's see if a deeper dive can yield any info in that regard.
First off, lets look at how they're attacking him with fastballs.  A comparison of 2023 to 2019 is in order I think considering 2019 was Mike's most recent MVP season.  
In 2023, they're throwing fastballs at him 49.6% of the time.  In 2019, they attacked him with fastballs 42.8% of the time.  But where?

Side by side it 2023 vs. 2019.  
Up out of the zone 2023: 35.4%
Up out of the zone 2019: 33.0%
Up and in the zone 2023: 22.8%
Up and in the zone 2019: 22.8%
So pretty damn close here.  
Is he swinging at them the same amount?  
Balls up in the zone 2023: 7.8%
Balls up in the zone 2019: 5.4%
Balls up out of the zone 2023: 1.5%
Balls up out of the zone 2019: 0.9%
Alright, we might be getting somewhere here.  
And how about the results?
Balls up in the zone wOBA 2023: 
   
Balls up in the zone wOBA 2019:

Not all that compelling...
How about out of the zone?
Up and out of zone wOBA 2023: 0.0 but that's 8 results
Up and out of zone wOBA 2019: 0.0 on 11 results.  
So he really doesn't make that many outs on fastballs up in the zone in general because he doesn't really offer at that pitch all that much.  Yes he's on pace to do so a few more times this year but by seasons end we're talking like maybe 8 more outs.  Which is still not great but really on 10-12 points of batting average.  
So he's swinging more.  But why? 
Is it because he's in more two strike counts in general?  Nope.  Almost the exact same amount.  
Are they attacking him with fastballs up more with two strikes?  9.8% of the time in 2023 vs. 8.2% in 2019.  It averages out to about 30 more results from pitches up in the zone for 2023 than in 2019.   
None of the above screams that he would be tanking to the tune of an ops 175 points below his career avg.  And a few things I'd like to leave people with as they contemplate his demise.
His avg exit velo is higher than the 2019 season.  His hard hit rate is higher than his career avg.  His chase rate is at about his career avg.  His swing and miss rate is higher than his avg but down from last year.  And for all you stat nerds, his xwOBA for contact is .490.  Still elite but off his .513 career avg.  
His xba is .269 compared to his actual of .252.  His xSLG is .508 compared to his actual of .467. 
Personally, I just think he's swinging too much.  Yes, there are some signs of decline there, but there's some bad luck too.  Why swing more when your swinging strike rate has gone up?  He used to leave certain strikes alone.  You can't tell me that pitchers have become better at commanding the ball than they did before. 
Albert Pujols called and he wants his late career approach back.  Let him have it.