Reveille1984

That's absurd.  What would another closer have done that Estevez hasn't?  He's been garbage over the last month or so, but still hasn't actually cost them many games. 
Also, there actually aren't many "true #1 starters" who will be available in free agency this off-season.  The best starters are probably Snell, Stroman, Urias, Nola, Sonny Gray, and Giolito, and most of them still come with injury or performance risks/concerns.

An overhaul of our pitching coaches/trainers is probably in order.  Not that I'm going to fully blame Matt Wise and co. for everyone on the staff completely regressing this year, but we need a new voice to help these guys out.  
Kind of funny that we finally get a mostly healthy pitching staff all year, but they end up completely shitting the bed anyways while our lineup is decimated by injuries.

No one cares. You should want everyone to have it better than you but instead you want everyone to have it as bad because you did it and it made you a crotchety asswipe so everyone else should suffer. 

The “chance to build for the future” is not defined by the 2023 trade deadline strategy where they decided to make a couple of trades to stay in it.
They didn’t gut the farm.  They traded a couple of prospects.
Fans are so dramatic.
The Angels have a good group of young quality players going forward.

Step one:
Sell the team to someone else.

When does Arte get canned?

Bump for smug factor.
 

We're already an embarrassment around the league as long as Arte owns this team, nothing's going to change because of these deadline deals when we had basically a 10% chance at the wild card.
I know this is an Angels fan board and as a long time fan of this team of course I want them to do well.  But there's just not a lot to be optimistic about on the horizon unfortunately, especially after this season is done.  I know a lot of people on this board don't care about farm system rankings or prospects, but we've seen how this has worked out over the last decade.  Sure, guys like Neto and O'Hoppe are nice but let's be honest with ourselves.  These aren't going to be some kind of game changing, franchise altering players.   Every SP we have has regressed this year and with Ohtani gone this rotation and lineup is going to look a lot more bleak.
This is also a super weak free agent year, so it's not like we can just patch everything up with throwing cash around.
 

Angels. He will stay. He wants to win and won’t go the way of say LeBron, by choosing a ready made winner. He wants to be the main reason for a team to win it all!

Any team not owned by Arte Moreno.

Angels.

He should get one year and $3-5 million. 

My point is that "clubhouse leadership" is probably highly overrated. If the team is spiraling out of control, what does that phrase even mean in practical, real world terms? 
Also, paying 35+-year-old guys for their "pedigree" is pretty much never a good idea. 
 

I’d rather them try and keep Urshela around as the flex guy.  Moose is a fun story but cmon.  He’s going to be 37.  

We're already an embarrassment around the league as long as Arte owns this team, nothing's going to change because of these deadline deals when we had basically a 10% chance at the wild card.
I know this is an Angels fan board and as a long time fan of this team of course I want them to do well.  But there's just not a lot to be optimistic about on the horizon unfortunately, especially after this season is done.  I know a lot of people on this board don't care about farm system rankings or prospects, but we've seen how this has worked out over the last decade.  Sure, guys like Neto and O'Hoppe are nice but let's be honest with ourselves.  These aren't going to be some kind of game changing, franchise altering players.   Every SP we have has regressed this year and with Ohtani gone this rotation and lineup is going to look a lot more bleak.
This is also a super weak free agent year, so it's not like we can just patch everything up with throwing cash around.
 

The best step forward is Arte to sell, the entire FO cleaned out, Nevin gone, only keep Trout and try to win when he’s an old man. Reality sucks. 

We're already an embarrassment around the league as long as Arte owns this team, nothing's going to change because of these deadline deals when we had basically a 10% chance at the wild card.
I know this is an Angels fan board and as a long time fan of this team of course I want them to do well.  But there's just not a lot to be optimistic about on the horizon unfortunately, especially after this season is done.  I know a lot of people on this board don't care about farm system rankings or prospects, but we've seen how this has worked out over the last decade.  Sure, guys like Neto and O'Hoppe are nice but let's be honest with ourselves.  These aren't going to be some kind of game changing, franchise altering players.   Every SP we have has regressed this year and with Ohtani gone this rotation and lineup is going to look a lot more bleak.
This is also a super weak free agent year, so it's not like we can just patch everything up with throwing cash around.
 

We're already an embarrassment around the league as long as Arte owns this team, nothing's going to change because of these deadline deals when we had basically a 10% chance at the wild card.
I know this is an Angels fan board and as a long time fan of this team of course I want them to do well.  But there's just not a lot to be optimistic about on the horizon unfortunately, especially after this season is done.  I know a lot of people on this board don't care about farm system rankings or prospects, but we've seen how this has worked out over the last decade.  Sure, guys like Neto and O'Hoppe are nice but let's be honest with ourselves.  These aren't going to be some kind of game changing, franchise altering players.   Every SP we have has regressed this year and with Ohtani gone this rotation and lineup is going to look a lot more bleak.
This is also a super weak free agent year, so it's not like we can just patch everything up with throwing cash around.
 

We're already an embarrassment around the league as long as Arte owns this team, nothing's going to change because of these deadline deals when we had basically a 10% chance at the wild card.
I know this is an Angels fan board and as a long time fan of this team of course I want them to do well.  But there's just not a lot to be optimistic about on the horizon unfortunately, especially after this season is done.  I know a lot of people on this board don't care about farm system rankings or prospects, but we've seen how this has worked out over the last decade.  Sure, guys like Neto and O'Hoppe are nice but let's be honest with ourselves.  These aren't going to be some kind of game changing, franchise altering players.   Every SP we have has regressed this year and with Ohtani gone this rotation and lineup is going to look a lot more bleak.
This is also a super weak free agent year, so it's not like we can just patch everything up with throwing cash around.
 

We're already an embarrassment around the league as long as Arte owns this team, nothing's going to change because of these deadline deals when we had basically a 10% chance at the wild card.
I know this is an Angels fan board and as a long time fan of this team of course I want them to do well.  But there's just not a lot to be optimistic about on the horizon unfortunately, especially after this season is done.  I know a lot of people on this board don't care about farm system rankings or prospects, but we've seen how this has worked out over the last decade.  Sure, guys like Neto and O'Hoppe are nice but let's be honest with ourselves.  These aren't going to be some kind of game changing, franchise altering players.   Every SP we have has regressed this year and with Ohtani gone this rotation and lineup is going to look a lot more bleak.
This is also a super weak free agent year, so it's not like we can just patch everything up with throwing cash around.
 

Honestly worth it if Arte decides to sell

Again, we talk baseball - and that includes speculating on the future. I'm not attached to any particular outcome and hope that my concerns are unfounded. But raising concerns isn't inherently "doom-and-gloom," and considering these issues isn't "needlessly pedantic" (except insofar as talking about baseball at all, beyond screaming at the telly, is pedantic). I tend to take a wide range of perspectives and considerations, and don't overly focus on the negative or, on the other hand, be homeristic and rosy-tinged. I like to consider the possibilities from different angles. 
But you're right: We don't know how things will turn out. That doesn't invalidate my concerns, however. 
 

0-4 since I started this thread and got grilled for it.