AngelsFanSince86

We provided a case study within their own division, yet somehow it wasn't enough.

I always assumed they were doing it for long term reasons.  I doubt they expected it to have an immediate positive effect.  I figured it was to help entice left handed hitters to play here and once that happens the results should even out.  It was never going to benefit the Angels more than opposing teams immediately given the fact they are a heavily RHH team.
At the end of the day, even if they had a fair amount of LHH, it is going to be about 50-50 at best.  That is why I figured the reasoning behind it was more long term (fans get to see more HRs, LHH may be a little more easily persuaded to sign here, etc.)

Yeah I thought the perfect scenario if they signed Harper would be to move Upton to 1B. I think they are much better off keeping Calhoun. I don't like the idea of moving Calhoun to another team because he's one of the best players on the Angels so the value of adding Harper would be minimized. That's why ultimately adding machado would be better if we had the opportunity to sign one of them. However, if Upton could move to 1B it may add even more value just by removing his atrocious defense from the outfield.

Guess it takes a GM that actually knows what they are doing to grab the reins.  None of us actually know what happened.  All we know is that Moreno does in fact rely on his GM to make the ultimate decision (strange how Dipoto was the only GM under Moreno who seemed to have this problem and now Eppler "runs the show").  So despite how you may feel about this, ultimately Dipoto agreed or it wouldn't have happened.  We also know Dipoto is directly responsible for 2 of the worst farm systems of all time.  We also know Dipoto is responsible for Baldoquin and the subsequent inability to sign Vlad Jr. who would have, with almost 100% certainty, signed with the Angels if given the chance.  We also know he quit.  Make whatever excuses you want, but a quitter is a quitter is a quitter. Quitting is not being run out.  Its running away like a petulant child.
 
Edit:  For what its worth, I am waiting patiently for the day Scioscia is gone.  I don't know who should replace him, but I trust that Eppler will make the right choice.  I do think they need a change of culture, but I don't think Scioscia is to blame for Dipoto's (many) shortcomings.

Guess it takes a GM that actually knows what they are doing to grab the reins.  None of us actually know what happened.  All we know is that Moreno does in fact rely on his GM to make the ultimate decision (strange how Dipoto was the only GM under Moreno who seemed to have this problem and now Eppler "runs the show").  So despite how you may feel about this, ultimately Dipoto agreed or it wouldn't have happened.  We also know Dipoto is directly responsible for 2 of the worst farm systems of all time.  We also know Dipoto is responsible for Baldoquin and the subsequent inability to sign Vlad Jr. who would have, with almost 100% certainty, signed with the Angels if given the chance.  We also know he quit.  Make whatever excuses you want, but a quitter is a quitter is a quitter. Quitting is not being run out.  Its running away like a petulant child.
 
Edit:  For what its worth, I am waiting patiently for the day Scioscia is gone.  I don't know who should replace him, but I trust that Eppler will make the right choice.  I do think they need a change of culture, but I don't think Scioscia is to blame for Dipoto's (many) shortcomings.

When Dipoto left, the Angels' minor league season was ranked dead last. You honestly can't blame Mike Scioscia for that. Give me the name of one player drafted with Dipoto at the helm who has superstar potential.
Dipoto inherited an M's farm system that was ranked 28th. OK. Where is it ranked now? If he's such a great GM, shouldn't he have improved the farm system?

I had to respond to "big Jerry Dipoto fan".
You are aware that he destroyed the farm system here, and has already destroyed the M's farm system.
Like the Halos were by 2016, the M's are screwed now because they have no farm to rely on.   Their 'TOP' prospect Kyle Lewis flopped this season, only a .711 OPS.   
Without a farm, it is very difficult to maintain any continuity.
Dipoto may be a great family man, but as a GM he comes across as arrogant and seemingly trying to outsmart others and even himself with some head scratching moves.  He and Reagins set back this franchise pretty much an entire decade.

Yeah I read that quote and was left scratching my head. How exactly does he get the experience if they don't let him get the experience? It's mind boggling. I was at the game Friday night and saw multiple people flash their Japanese passport. Clearly there for Ohtani, but of course he was sitting.  They have an opportunity to give Ohtani experience while also pleasing a sector of fans previously uninterested in the Angels and they are blowing it.
 
Edit: meant to include "to buy a beer" when saying I saw some individuals flash their passport. 

His pitch load makes me uneasy although he seems the type to be durable.  All of his injuries have been due to accidents.  He was in a dirt bike accident in 2017 and then fractured his hand on a comebacker during spring training this year.  So there aren't really any red flags as far as pitching related injury history.

Jason Heyward

Every single free agent contract ever was for what someone did in the past.  

Yeah but it's a bit different when you are paying them for things they did in the past for your team. In essence you are paying them for the production they have given you. Plus Torii didn't get that much. They just low balled him when they should have just given him fair market value. But they wanted Hamilton. That move pissed me off from the start. I had disliked Hamilton as a person long before the Angels signed him and Torii was one of my favorite players. 

I think its because people keep saying to graduate them and you keep saying something along the lines of, "I don't want to count on that".  Clearly we can't count on anything that is an unknown.  That is why these guys need to be given a shot.  Clearly it's going to take more than our minor league depth to compete.  
It is going to take a mix of both though.  It would have been nice to have Cron at first, but that ship has sailed.  So now we have to hope one of our minor league guys can hit because the FA market for 1B is pretty weak.  Between Fletcher and Cozart we would have 2B and 3B somewhat covered, but they need someone else preferably with more power.  If Ward can produce it would go a long way towards solidifying the infield.  Then there is RF.  Kole has figured it out it seems, but it is probably worth it to upgrade.  Harper? AJ Pollock?
There isn't much in the way of front line SP except maybe Keuchel.  RP can be had but likely for a decent price.
For me, to have confidence in 2019, the Angels need one of Thaiss, Ward, or Rengifo to show they can produce at the MLB level.  On top of that they need to sign one proven, veteran SP that doesn't have 1500+ IP in his career.  They also need a closer (Kimbrel would be awesome) and one or two other RP.  They also need to sign Harper (unless he's still demanding over his real value), Machado if he'll play 3B, or even Pollock who is a more consistent hitter than Kole and is also a GG caliber CFer.  And then they could move Kole to fill in depth somewhere.  If he keeps up his resurgence for the rest of the season then he will have a fair amount of value.
However, part of this all coming together is having one of our minor league guys contribute.  
Edit:  Also note Cron's numbers in Tampa Bay.  He's been what most thought he could be.  Angels just never let him play it out.  They sent him down every time he struggled.  What kind of message does that send the minor leaguers?  For a game that is so mental you should instill confidence in your young guys.  The veterans are the ones who need the stern message of "produce or get out".  This organization has everything flip flopped.
 

Right, that was more in response to another poster. Slegnaac was saying that if they bring up Ward, Thaiss, Rengifo then they have to do something with Valbuena, Marte, Kinsler. And he said what do if the new guys don't produce or get injured. What I was saying is that for the remainder of this year there are other options. Kinsler would probably get you a reasonable return on the trade market because of his defense and the fact he's posted a .750 OPS in his last 50 games. Then you just release Marte and Valbuena and roll with the other guys I mentioned. 
You're right, JMF, Fontana, and Cowart probably won't give you anything, but their production will likely equal or better Valbuena/Marte. It's Ward, Thaiss, and Rengifo that you want to see. If just one of them breaks out wouldn't it be worth it to do all that to find out? Heck, if they all fail it would be worth it to find out.

Well this was taken by @Adam last night. 

Memo to Arte Moreno: You're not going to get 3 million fans again unless you put a winning team on the field. 

So, leave these guys in the minor leagues because in a season that is already lost they could possible do worse than Marte and Valbuena. What in the fuck went wrong with you as a fan that you wouldn't want to see these guys get a chance?
If they just play league average it is a huge upgrade over what is stumbling out on the field now. Marte 42 OPS+ Valbuena 64 OPS+. Even as bad as Cowart was last season in his call up he posted an 82 OPS+ and played tremendous defensively.
 

Results don’t matter to the Angels.. we all know that. Mike Scisocia has been to the playoffs 1 time since 2009 and leads us year after year to mediocre results. Yet he stays. 
 
Albert Pujols, Luis Valbuena, etc make it to clear to me that winning just isn’t at the forefront. Moreno is chasing money and couldn’t care less about winning a World Series, or even making the playoffs for that matter. They get the best player in baseball and F*ck it up big time, can only get him to the playoffs once. Fire the entire coaching staff, release valbuena, force pujols to the bench. Thats what the RED SOX/YANKEES/CARDS etc. would do... because losing isn’t acceptable. 

I'll wait to complain until next year.  This was his make or break year.  He got healthy for the first time in years and this was the year where we would see if he could put up some decent numbers.  He didn't.  His slash line is nearly identical to last season.  So he needs to retire or like he said he would or the front office has to do something about it.  
For now at least he's still hitting fairly well with RISP.  

I'll wait to complain until next year.  This was his make or break year.  He got healthy for the first time in years and this was the year where we would see if he could put up some decent numbers.  He didn't.  His slash line is nearly identical to last season.  So he needs to retire or like he said he would or the front office has to do something about it.  
For now at least he's still hitting fairly well with RISP.  

I'll wait to complain until next year.  This was his make or break year.  He got healthy for the first time in years and this was the year where we would see if he could put up some decent numbers.  He didn't.  His slash line is nearly identical to last season.  So he needs to retire or like he said he would or the front office has to do something about it.  
For now at least he's still hitting fairly well with RISP.  

Yes after the season ended. 

0-5, 7 LOB, had a run subtracting baserunning error and you could argue that his great throw was only needed in the 9th because in the same inning he dove for a ball, missed entirely and let it roll to the wall. Really appreciative of the effort and the killer throw, but "puts the team on his back" isn't quite accurate. 

Definitely Skaggs for a great night pitching and keeping us ahead of a guy who's been one of the best pitchers in baseball so far this year.  However, even more so for the fact our bullpen finally got some sort of rest thanks to pitching a full 7 innings for (i think) only the 3rd time this year.  

Definitely Skaggs for a great night pitching and keeping us ahead of a guy who's been one of the best pitchers in baseball so far this year.  However, even more so for the fact our bullpen finally got some sort of rest thanks to pitching a full 7 innings for (i think) only the 3rd time this year.