AngelsFanSince86

Yeah you are right, 4 Sons, Riip, Green Cheek, Bottle Logic, Artifex, Bruery, Brewery X, Beachwood, Chapman Crafted, Pizza Port SC........yep only 5-7 are any good. You may want to stick to talking about baseball. 

For a day game in the middle of summer ok, but those April/ May games in the evening, I would love to have more IPA selections.

Actually... he's a giant pussy! 

Dodgers: We got Betts, Price, and Graterol!
Red Sox: We got salary relief, Verdugo, and prospects!
Twins: We got Maeda and $!
Angels...........

My point is, the Dodgers aren't the ones who got pissy and aren't happy with the deal.  I realize they want Price and Betts, but seems like they're getting screwed if they're the ones who have to "make up the difference."

When you factor in parks Bundy hasn't been much worse than Maeda and Teheran has definitely been better. Maeda getting old and is redundant. He pushes out younger players with more upside.

Maeda as a starter: 3.95 career ERA (105 ERA+ that includes his relief pitching. Likely closer to 100 if you exclude relief). Is entering age 32 season.
Bundy: 4.67 ERA, 95 ERA+ but played on an awful team and is only going into age 27 season.
Teheran: 3.67 ERA, 110 ERA+ entering age 29 season

I’ve been pretty confident the Angels weren’t illegally stealing signs, but here’s a thing if anyone’s interested: 
 

I disagree with this..I think some people are just too reactive. I haven't blamed Eppler...yet. I think/know he was put in a tough spot. However, at a certain point you are the GM and you do have the best player in the world and a greater than average budget. At some point you have to address the glaring issue and stop hoping that guys perform to their potential while having no injuries. All how you do that is your issue, not mine. 
And I just don't get the sentiment of "well if you could do the job better"... We are fans. We are the reason these guys get paid (including Eppler). We are the customer. It is our right to criticize. I don't see why, as a paying customer (specifically a loyal one), it is taboo to expect those who are in charge of putting together the on field product shouldn't be expected to come through despite the surface issues. In other words, regardless of all of the excuses we are well within right and reason to expect Eppler to be able to make something happen. That's why he's the to GM of a multi billion dollar franchise.

Meh.  I'm taking the wait and see approach, but I'm not making any excuses for Eppler.  I know if you go player by player then you can make an argument for why it didn't work out.  But at the end of the day it is Eppler's job to put together a contender.  He has had 5 offseasons to do it and there has been many excuses, most of them legitimate.  However, the time has finally come.  If the Angels do not make the postseason this year it is 100% on Eppler.  I don't want to hear about injuries and poor performance.  And I don't want to hear that I or anyone else should be the GM then.  Thats his job that he gets paid the big bucks to do.  He is supposedly an expert.  
That being said, the year still has to play out and there is plenty of offseason left as well.  The end result is all that matters and if we fall short because of pitching, that will be 100% on Eppler.  

Meh.  I'm taking the wait and see approach, but I'm not making any excuses for Eppler.  I know if you go player by player then you can make an argument for why it didn't work out.  But at the end of the day it is Eppler's job to put together a contender.  He has had 5 offseasons to do it and there has been many excuses, most of them legitimate.  However, the time has finally come.  If the Angels do not make the postseason this year it is 100% on Eppler.  I don't want to hear about injuries and poor performance.  And I don't want to hear that I or anyone else should be the GM then.  Thats his job that he gets paid the big bucks to do.  He is supposedly an expert.  
That being said, the year still has to play out and there is plenty of offseason left as well.  The end result is all that matters and if we fall short because of pitching, that will be 100% on Eppler.  

Lou, the fact that we shouldn't be upset about trading Wilson is the problem. 
He was our first round pick this past year and his overall value should be significantly more than the approximate $9M we traded him for ($12M minus what they already had given him as a signing bonus). 
My frustrations on Wilson come more from the fact they drafted him to begin with then the fact they traded him. 
I will have to reserve judgment on the money aspect until the offseason is complete. As it stands, they aren't much higher then their "real" payroll has been set at the last few years.  So on the surface it makes it look like the Cozart/Wilson trade was made specifically to stay within reason of the same budget they have had the last few seasons (same one they've said they were willing to overshoot this offseason).
At this point the only way to improve the rotation is through trade which inevitably hurts the farm. They also need to improve at catcher. So if they already traded away this year's first rounder, then have to trade away for an arm, and again for a catcher, what does that do to our farm?

This is pretty much how I have felt from the beginning.  I know at the end of the day I will never know the whole story, but this is how I see it:
1) Arte is too cheap to take a 12M hit for one year and just release Cozart.
2) Their scouting is so inept that they took a guy as their first round pick and then 46 games later decided he actually isn't that great.
I just don't see how that trade doesn't have a bad look to it no matter how you swing it.  It's most likely that they just don't value Wilson that highly and are trying to capitalize on his 1st round status (I believe someone else has mentioned that here).  The problem with that is the fact that they literally just drafted him.  He's played 46 minor league games.  Why the hell did you draft him then? And what does that say about their competence going forward?
Edit:  I wanted to point out that my point is independent of everything else.  Regardless of what they do this offseason I don't see how this was necessary.  And if it was, as I have stated, it just looks bad on their scouting and drafting competency.

Yeah, that was kind of my point though.  I don't really think it was because he is cheap so they were willing to trade a highly valued prospect just to save $12M.
The main reason has to be that they didn't value Wilson nearly as much as they did on draft day.  And that, to me, is an issue regardless of what they do the rest of the offseason.  It seems incredible to me that you could value someone enough to take them with your first round pick and after 46 games realize what everyone else seemed to already know (since most of what I read at the time was that they reached for him).  

This is pretty much how I have felt from the beginning.  I know at the end of the day I will never know the whole story, but this is how I see it:
1) Arte is too cheap to take a 12M hit for one year and just release Cozart.
2) Their scouting is so inept that they took a guy as their first round pick and then 46 games later decided he actually isn't that great.
I just don't see how that trade doesn't have a bad look to it no matter how you swing it.  It's most likely that they just don't value Wilson that highly and are trying to capitalize on his 1st round status (I believe someone else has mentioned that here).  The problem with that is the fact that they literally just drafted him.  He's played 46 minor league games.  Why the hell did you draft him then? And what does that say about their competence going forward?
Edit:  I wanted to point out that my point is independent of everything else.  Regardless of what they do this offseason I don't see how this was necessary.  And if it was, as I have stated, it just looks bad on their scouting and drafting competency.

This is pretty much how I have felt from the beginning.  I know at the end of the day I will never know the whole story, but this is how I see it:
1) Arte is too cheap to take a 12M hit for one year and just release Cozart.
2) Their scouting is so inept that they took a guy as their first round pick and then 46 games later decided he actually isn't that great.
I just don't see how that trade doesn't have a bad look to it no matter how you swing it.  It's most likely that they just don't value Wilson that highly and are trying to capitalize on his 1st round status (I believe someone else has mentioned that here).  The problem with that is the fact that they literally just drafted him.  He's played 46 minor league games.  Why the hell did you draft him then? And what does that say about their competence going forward?
Edit:  I wanted to point out that my point is independent of everything else.  Regardless of what they do this offseason I don't see how this was necessary.  And if it was, as I have stated, it just looks bad on their scouting and drafting competency.

This is pretty much how I have felt from the beginning.  I know at the end of the day I will never know the whole story, but this is how I see it:
1) Arte is too cheap to take a 12M hit for one year and just release Cozart.
2) Their scouting is so inept that they took a guy as their first round pick and then 46 games later decided he actually isn't that great.
I just don't see how that trade doesn't have a bad look to it no matter how you swing it.  It's most likely that they just don't value Wilson that highly and are trying to capitalize on his 1st round status (I believe someone else has mentioned that here).  The problem with that is the fact that they literally just drafted him.  He's played 46 minor league games.  Why the hell did you draft him then? And what does that say about their competence going forward?
Edit:  I wanted to point out that my point is independent of everything else.  Regardless of what they do this offseason I don't see how this was necessary.  And if it was, as I have stated, it just looks bad on their scouting and drafting competency.

This is pretty much how I have felt from the beginning.  I know at the end of the day I will never know the whole story, but this is how I see it:
1) Arte is too cheap to take a 12M hit for one year and just release Cozart.
2) Their scouting is so inept that they took a guy as their first round pick and then 46 games later decided he actually isn't that great.
I just don't see how that trade doesn't have a bad look to it no matter how you swing it.  It's most likely that they just don't value Wilson that highly and are trying to capitalize on his 1st round status (I believe someone else has mentioned that here).  The problem with that is the fact that they literally just drafted him.  He's played 46 minor league games.  Why the hell did you draft him then? And what does that say about their competence going forward?
Edit:  I wanted to point out that my point is independent of everything else.  Regardless of what they do this offseason I don't see how this was necessary.  And if it was, as I have stated, it just looks bad on their scouting and drafting competency.

I know Archer was just an example, but I think he would be a great addition.  This year is really his only bad year. The 3 years prior he was averaging about 6 innings a game and his FIP suggests he was a bit better than his ERA showed (although not as dominant as he once was). He still has a SO/9 of over 10.  
And he's with the Pirates now. Remember Cole was headed in the wrong direction before being traded to the Astros and reviving his dominance. 
If Archer could pitch 6 innings a game at a 4ish ERA for 33 games a season, that would be far better than anyone on the Angels have currently and go a long way towards them being a true contender.

Adjusted in red to remove starts against Angels
 
Edit:  And has a 3.93 ERA against non-Angels opponents

Agreed.  I wasn't really trying to make a point, just thought it would be a fun exercise to show it.  I mean, in totality without the Angels starts he has been OK.  Better than most of our pitchers.  And at $10M that's not so bad.  However, like you said, his cost is going up. And you can't really just discount his Angels starts. 
I'd say they should just not have him pitch against the Angels, but I really hope that doesn't happen.
 

I think it generally considered "bad form" by true fans.  It mostly bothers me unless the game is a blow out and its towards the end of the game.  Drives me nuts when its like the 3rd inning and they are doing the beach balls.  My son likes both regardless.
 
But I do have one friend who is definitely a big Angels fan, yet really doesn't mind either and kind of enjoys the wave for whatever reason.