floplag

This
If there was EVER A time for Arte to go ham, its now.
Yeah some tax but not a full seasons worth and ups your chanced to keep him inthe fold.
Its crunch time for Arte IMO.

So after the conversation the other day, im curious what "going all in" looks like to the board.  Im assuming this means adding between now and the deadline as the current roster inst that.
Forget for a minute whether or not its realistic or whether Arte will once and for all finally put his wallet where his mouth is tax wise... lets assume for arguments sake he will (even though ill believe that when i see it)... 
And for now well assume Ohtnai is NOT being traded.
Who do we try to add, what does that look like?
GoldSchmidt?  Stroman?  Chapman?  Any C options to bridge to OHoppes return?  
I dont know how realistic any of that is given the farm but im curious where people are on this? 
 

And how many of those fans are only here for him, versus being actual angel fans?   Last i checked were still the angels, not the Ohtanis.

Youre right, it should have already been done, we already bungled that.. all we have now its whats left. 

I would bet right now the Dodgers or Mets would still pay premium, maybe even the Padres...  No, youre not getting all star, but you could easily get a couple of top kids controllable for years.  Fill gaps we otherwise cant.  Isnt that worth something?

IDK this is debated out, people are set in their takes and thats fine, so am i, i still think its the smartest move we have left.

Ill take my leave and let you get back to it.  

In my defense i would say no im not, seeing their comments supports my position but didnt influence or create it.  To me the fact that he hasnt extended, for whatever reason, is proof enough.
His own words have made clear what he wants, and i dont think well get lucky twice a la Trout. 
Im not assuming anything, i could be wrong, maybe he stays when all is said and done, and maybe this team does do batter than it looks right now, i certainly cant see the future, but thats a hell of a gamble when you have a chip of that value. 
If it all works out, you look like a genius, if it doesnt work out, you look like an absolute imbecile.

I agree though on youre estimate of percentage, 25 maybe 30%... so thats bascially 3 or 4 to one against.. do you go all in on a bad situation with those odds?  Logic would suggest thats a bad play to make. 

This is absolutely not true.
I have been saying we should, or at least been open to it, not because i want to, but because its what makes sense for the club. 
Id love to keep him, but im not sure i want to pay anyone 50M+ under Moreno, it creates more issues than it solves budget wise.
Letting him walk for nothing doesnt help anything, getting a couple young potential studs, certainly does. 
Long term we may need those at bats.
These are baseball reasons, not fandom reasons, not drama reasons... debate them if you wish but dont make assumptions like that. 
No fan of this team WANTS to trade him, but the realiity of him not being here next year one way or another is upon us. 
We can either profit from it, or look like idiots.  Were going to get blasted either way. 

 

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  
The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 
But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

Well played sir, well played... 

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  
The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 
But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  
The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 
But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  
The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 
But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

Need 3, must at least split. 

Need 3, must at least split. 

Need 3, must at least split. 

No, it isnt.  Not if you look at the things that have been said or done to smear others politically.  He has had a pattern of very creepy behavior and taking liberties with women.
You dont get to say "believe her" when its Reps then say this is nothing when its Dems... there has to be one standard. 

So we have a pitching coach... why?  exactly?  

Virtually every season in recent memory weve had to post and read this... you could have posted this in any number of the last 5-10 years, in fact i think you have.  THATS the perspective. 
 

Virtually every season in recent memory weve had to post and read this... you could have posted this in any number of the last 5-10 years, in fact i think you have.  THATS the perspective. 
 

Virtually every season in recent memory weve had to post and read this... you could have posted this in any number of the last 5-10 years, in fact i think you have.  THATS the perspective. 
 

Virtually every season in recent memory weve had to post and read this... you could have posted this in any number of the last 5-10 years, in fact i think you have.  THATS the perspective. 
 

Virtually every season in recent memory weve had to post and read this... you could have posted this in any number of the last 5-10 years, in fact i think you have.  THATS the perspective. 
 

Virtually every season in recent memory weve had to post and read this... you could have posted this in any number of the last 5-10 years, in fact i think you have.  THATS the perspective. 
 

Put yourself in the shoes of the other side, do you make that deal straight up?  I dont think any of them would.

This probably should be its own thread but as spring goes on im starting to winder if the guys that were signed as "depth" might end up more than that.
We had a lineup earlier in spring that had Urshela and Drury as the starting middle infield and so far both of the are outhitting the presumed starters.
I know its a defensive dropoff, especially at SS, that might be a bit much to handle but i wonder would the offensive bump make sense?
even Lamb is outdueling Walsh so far but i dont think they will make that change too quickly. 

Can we please keep the personal or political shit off this board... thanks

Hes included as the PTBNL