halodground

Thursday Night Football

New York @ San Francisco

Bump. Are we doing this week? 

Thursday, Sep. 14 Vikings @ Eagles

Sunday, Sept. 17 Chargers @ Titans

Sunday, Sept. 17 Ravens @ Bengals

Sunday, Sept. 17 Raiders @ Bills

Sunday, Sept 17 Colts @ Texans

Sunday, Sept. 17 Packers @ Falcons

Sunday, Sept. 17 Seahawks @ Lions

Sunday, Sept. 17 Bears @ Buccaneers

Sunday, Sept. 17 Chiefs @ Jaguars

Sunday, Sept. 17 Giants @ Cardinals

Sunday, Sept. 17 49ers @ Rams

Sunday, Sept. 17 Commanders @ Broncos 

Sunday, Sept. 17 Jets @ Cowboys

Sunday, Sept. 17 Dolphins @ Patriots

Monday, Sept. 18 Saints @ Panthers

Monday, Sept. 18 Browns @ Steelers

Detroit Lions at Kansas City Chiefs (-5)

Carolina Panthers at Atlanta Falcons (-3.5)

Cincinnati Bengals (-2.5) at Cleveland Browns

Jacksonville Jaguars (-5) at Indianapolis Colts

Tampa Bay Buccaneers at Minnesota Vikings (-6)

Tennessee Titans at New Orleans Saints (-3)

San Francisco 49ers (-2.5) at Pittsburgh Steelers

Arizona Cardinals at Washington Commanders (-7)

Houston Texans at Baltimore Ravens (-10)

Green Bay Packers at Chicago Bears (-1)

Las Vegas Raiders at Denver Broncos (-3.5)

Philadelphia Eagles (-4) at New England Patriots

Miami Dolphins @ Los Angeles Chargers (-3)

Los Angeles Rams at Seattle Seahawks (-5)

Dallas Cowboys (-3.5) at New York Giants

Buffalo Bills (-2.5) at New York Jets

20 hours ago, cals said:

My first reaction was that the Hawaiian incompetence played some role in this but I didn’t want to say it. But now it appears to be the case.

And Jason Momoa and the bitch from Moana don’t need to be telling people to not come to Hawaii.  If the government says that, fine.  But your people shat the bed and so you’ve lost your “haole go home” rights for a bit.

Most of the government and emergency management are haole, so it’s far more on them than any natives that the fire wasn’t handled well. Not to mention that they use the same practices here as anywhere else in the US for fire fighting and emergency response. But based on how fierce and fast the fire was, there would have been loss of life and massive loss of structure regardless of the response. A fire team had to leave their engine and escape in a UTV. Winds were clocked at 85 mph. So although there were mistakes and some incompetence, not much would have changed had everything been handled perfectly. 
 

Anyone who had plans in the next 6 months in West Maui should probably reconsider. The Kihei and Wailea areas further south should be fine soon, there’s plenty of fun places down there. 

Wtf. Brandon was such a fun dude and so entertaining on the forums. So sad.

20 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Open Table cancelled the reservation due to the restaurant not being there anymore. 

Kimo’s is definitely gone. That whole strip is. A few burnt pieces of framing is pretty much all that is left from the outlets all the way down to Lahaina Shores. Then much more burned further south, it just hopped around a bit more from Lahaina Shores down. Other than people’s homes, the Banyan Tree is the saddest to me. Most of the historic buildings will get rebuilt and look similar, but the Banyan Tree looks like it really burned pretty hard. I can’t find anywhere how resilient banyan trees are to fire. Despite all the tourists and the homeless people, that tree was super cool. Especially at sunset when all the birds came to roost. It’s a bummer.  It’s still standing, some leaves in places, but it’s basically black. The Pioneer Inn, if anyone is familiar, is totally gone. Just ashes.

Lahaina is ashes. Hundreds and hundreds of structures gone, many historic. Harbor (including a good portion of the boats) and the banyan tree burned. Most of Front St. is literally ashes. Haven’t seen anything from Kaanapali yet, but most everything south of there within a 1/2 mile of the waterfront is gone. Homes, schools, grocery stores, offices, restaurants, tourist trap shops…… all gone. Damages will be in the billions. Rumors of bodies in the streets but I’ve yet to confirm. Tragedy for Hawaii.

Just now, Justin said:

Howie Kendrick. 

9 seasons. 28.5 bWAR. 28.9 million dollars total salary. 

And some people complained because he never hit .350 in Anaheim like he did in the minors. 

I was just about to post Howie and Aybar. Both very solid guys who weren’t appreciated enough. I’d add Scot Shields to the list too. He was so much better than most people gave him credit for. Guys like him make the whole bullpen better.

Discussion is healthy, not argumentative. I don’t agree that they weren’t all in however. I think that was as “all in” as Perry was able to go, either due to budget constraints or availability of equitable return. I have no doubt that if he could’ve landed a Verlander or Scherzer in a way that made them better this year, he would have. He just didn’t have the prospect capital to do it, and what it would’ve taken from the 26 man roster didn’t position them better to succeed. From my viewpoint they didn’t really trade away the future with the moves they made (we aren’t talking about surefire all-stars that were traded, just the kind of talent we should have in our system continuously), I just don’t think those moves help with sustainable success AND they weren’t enough to push them ahead of the other teams in the race. It’s the combination that irks me. 

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Well we certainly disagree on one thing.  

I think this year’s team (without the injuries) was actually very well positioned to make a run.

And there seems to be some good evidence that Moreno is listening to Minasian better today than he was in previous years.

 

I meant more from the perspective of where they were at the trade deadline.  Injuries were a known factor at that point and they had to leapfrog a lot of better constructed, deeper teams. If Trout, Rendon, O’Hoppe, and others were healthy and productive, that certainly would have made me more hopeful and more willing to go for it.

12 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Go forward with the good group of young players they have now, and carefully supplement that core with smart free agent signings.

Agree wholeheartedly with this part of your statement.
 

I’m less confident that it is what is actually happening right now. Minasian has been placed in a pretty impossible position by an owner who doesn’t seem to get that he needs to fully commit to player development regardless of whether he has stars and a high payroll if sustainable success is the goal. He had to go all in and the team is likely worse in the long run because of it. Does giving Shohei $50 mil plus per year help with sustained success? That’s a difficult question to answer and I feel  from a probability standpoint, it’s a better bet to go with no. I think Neto, O’Hoppe, Detmers, etc are nice pieces moving forward. But I don’t see anyone as untouchable, or at least they shouldn’t be. The GM needs to be free to make moves that improve the team’s success in a sustainable way, not a tantamount concern of “making the postseason” for one specific year. Particularly with a flawed team that has been further impaired by a ridiculous number of injuries and wasn’t positioned well to make a run to begin with.

25 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Hard question that all MLB management juggles with. I really don't know. I don't like to use the phrase "bad luck" but it's pretty bizarre how a midlevel to high payroll team like the Angels have been so bad for so long. I hope Ohtani resigns with us because that's the impetus for a lot of change. 

I’m on the fence on resigning Ohtani. Short term it’s a no brainer but scares me longer term. Some of that is being gun shy from our recent long term deals, but so few actually work out well for any team, and there is double risk with Ohtani since you are paying him and counting on him to excel as a pitcher and hitter. I lean more toward the “tear the whole thing down” plan most of the time, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in the Angels to do that right, especially after missing out on the opportunity to reload with an Ohtani trade. Plus Trout probably never sees the postseason in that scenario, and almost certainly not as an elite player.

Anyone else remember that feeling, circa 2005, that the Angels had finally figured things out? A solid rotation, dominant bullpen, just enough offense, and a steady pipeline of talent from the minor league system seemed like a great way to be competitive, year in and year out. And it worked for a solid 6-7 years then totally went to shit. It’s really been 14 seasons of futility now (let’s just call 2014 an outlier), approaching the abyss of 1987-2001 for sucking and ineptitude. But likely more frustrating due to the presence of not one, but two generational talents for a significant chunk of the time. What did Bill Stoneman have that the following GMs lacked? Or is it just Arte Moreno? Can we get back to being a quality franchise? Is it just terrible luck? It’s tough to be a proud Angels fan. Again.

I’m just glad the announcers can stop talking about Estevez being perfect in save situations. Dude gives me heartburn every time he pitches and the announcers go gaga cause he didn’t have a blown save yet. It was very annoying. Dude’s FIP is meh but his WHIP is unacceptable for a late innings guy in my book. ERA+ says he’s better than my eye does. He’s been ok. They make him out to be 2002 Percy sometimes. 

So many parts of Angelswin are inextricably linked to Lou’s humor, intelligence, and wit. Your presence is sorely missed. Sending peaceful thoughts and energy your way man.

Agree, one of best I’ve seen. Unfortunately a great deal of accuracy to it also

1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

Thing with 1995 was the team was outplaying their projections. Yes it was a collapse, but we weren't really supposed to be there. I still maintain Disarcina going down was the deathblow, as Neto was this year.

My big ones would be

2005 and that stupid call giving AJ the chance to run to 1B.

2009 and the Fuentes 0-2 pitch

 

You captured it really well for me.

2009 in particular, with the emotions of losing Adenhart, I really thought that team was destined to win the whole thing. Lots of talent too.

I think those of us who have been fans for many years, we expect frustration more than elation. I don’t believe in curses, but I do believe that culture runs deep and the Angels seem to have a culture that leads to frustration and occasionally tragedy. 
 

I’m forever hopeful that the right leader comes along and changes things. Scioscia and Stoneman seemed like those guys (I thought Arte too, in the early days), but the organization has drifted back into what seems to be both an ineffective and (from an external view at least) a rather toxic culture. It’s a travesty that drift back happened to line up with the arrival of two of the greatest talents in baseball history. Trout’s lack of postseason experience and success along with the looming exit of Ohtani only further deepen the perception that the Angels are a shoddy franchise.

What’s with all the home runs given up by Ohtani lately? Is it just a stretch where he isn’t at his best or is it a particular pitch that is getting hammered? Something else? Some of you guys are great at digging through the statcast data to find a pattern. Someone do their magic.

Going into the season I felt like they needed health and a few things to go right for them to contend. So far, they’ve been fairly healthy but most of the things I felt needed to go right (continued improvement of the young pitchers and Ward/Rengifo plus a couple guys in the BP stepping up) haven’t really happened and somehow they are still above .500 by a couple games. There is still lots of time for Sandoval and Detmers to adjust and improve on last year. Suarez looks lost though. Ward and Rengifo have looked better of late. Estevez and Moore are building blocks but still need help from someone in the pen.  Overall, I’m hopeful. It could be much worse, but it’s definitely not the start I would have liked to see.

Of course, this is the Angels we are talking about, so if key performances do improve and they seem to be putting it all together then the big injuries will automatically happen. 

Lol

The losses really highlight the weaknesses of the team. But winning fixes everything. As was said above, a few things go their way and they are 9-6 instead. We’d all probably feel better about that team. Here’s hoping the offense finds some consistency and the BP and defense turn it around. There is still time for that.

I tend to be a total homer and an optimist. Definitely in the “it’s early, it’s a long season” camp. But it’s pretty frustrating watching these guys so far. The weaknesses really stand out.

Wow! Surprising. Excited to see what Neto brings to the team. Seems early but I’ll trust the experts.

Move on. Take 3 out 4. 
 

Please.