AngelsFanSince86

and then other owners and players complain when A's don't spend.  As opposed to what? Wasting money on shitheads like Rendon?  Or pitchers that end up needing to be paid $30M+ for 2 years of tommy john rehab.  I'd pocket that money too.  Baseball is a joke and will be until they have a floor, cap, and non-fully guaranteed contracts.  So basically MLB will always be a joke and for the foreseeable future the Angels will be the punchline.

On 6/13/2022 at 4:10 PM, stormngt said:

As good Ward has played, you really think he should have been depth?

Marsh is average players.  How often do we have below average guys playing?

Sorry for the late reply on this. Obviously Ward is no longer depth, but starting the season he should have been and he wasn't.  That was my point.  How can you have a payroll close to $200M and yet not be willing to go past your budget to make sure you have real MLB level guys in all of your positions.  Marsh and Ward have been great , but we should have gone into this season with both of them as depth. Guys like Velazquez, Wade, Rengifo, and really even Fletcher should not be starters.  Only way Fletch is a starter is if you have a great SS that can hit.  Otherwise Fletch should just be the utility player.

Thats the problem though.  If you keep handing out massive contracts then you will will never be terrible which is what you need to be in order to properly rebuild with high draft picks.  If you are going to hand out massive contracts then you also need to be willing to push the budget to fill out the roster with real MLB talent.  Guys like Ward and Marsh and Lorenzen should be depth that surprises and allows the team to withstand injuries, not guys we depend on as starters.

Their problem is commitment.  If they want to win with Trout and Ohtani then they needed to sign a legit SS, another OFer, and another SP.  The Angels have depth.  The problem is they've made that depth their starters.  Adell, Duffy, Velasquez, Ward, and Marsh should have all started this season as depth.  Instead they were all battling for starting positions.  

On the flip side I definitely don't want them to trade Trout, but as long as he and Ohtani are on this team they will never be bad enough to get a top draft pick.  That is why the Angels are forever in mediocrity.  Won't go all in and try to win and won't go all in and rebuild.  

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

The only positives I'm finding in this 2022 version of the Angels are:

Trout and Rendon are healthy (so far)

Syndergaard could be a magical reclamation project after all.

There is an additional wild card to chase.

 

Other than that, I can't think offhand of anything.

Yeah between Ohtani and Syndergaard I can at least look forward to the first 5 innings of 1/3 of the games

Really glad the Angels didn't end up with him. There was a nagging feeling they would sign him. My son views him as a cheater. I legit wouldn't have been able to support the Angels with him on the team.

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

So let’s walk this out to see if it makes sense.

The As trade Montas to the Yankees and load up with Yankee prospects.

The Angels trade prospects to the Marlins for a pitcher.

In a couple years, the As have good young players to use against the Angels and the Angels don’t have the prospects they traded away to the Marlins.

How exactly are the Angels better off in this scenario rather than trading prospects to the As for Montas?

Exactly. They did go get whoever they think is the best pitcher/whichever trade they can actually get done. 

The whole in the same division thing doesn't matter if the alternative is to continue to be mediocre because they don't have enough quality starting pitchers.

Does anyone know when the tickets go on sale? I have to re purchase the tickets for the games we had tickets for.

2 hours ago, mmc said:

 

He also worked out at the Arenado facility with Nolan's brother

39 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I think the owners going to a $700K minimum salary is huge.  That's a $125K increase over what they get now. Plus the fact that they have a $30 million bonus pool on the table when there wasn't even such a thing in the past is also huge.  Yes, the players want more than $30 million, but going from zero to $30 million is a nice offer, IMO.

Yeah I saw someone make the point that they shouldn't be too stuck on getting the amount they want because that can always be a big point on the next agreement.  The big thing with the bonus pool is bringing it into existence.

14 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I've felt pretty neutral to this point but I'm beginning to feel like the owners are just being dicks.  

My feeling the whole time has been that the players are awful at negotiating and that the owners are being dicks.  As I understand it, the owners had proposed at one point a salary floor and "cap" of $100M/$180M.  Had they used that as a starting point for the negotiations the players could have really bettered their position.  Hardly any teams go over $180M, but almost half were under $100M.  In. 2021 it would have netted the players $250M or something like that. If they could agree to a floor/cap then I guarantee the owners would be happy to raise the minimum, give them earlier arbitration, bonus pools, etc. because they would have to spend a certain amount anyways and at the same time know all teams are limited.  At the end of the day that likely takes away from some of the monster contracts though (10+ years at $30M+) and thats why it was a non-starter for the players.  As a whole it would have really benefited them and I'm sure they could have negotiated the $100M/$180M up, but they just really don't want a cap and seem stuck on it.

11 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Minasian added: “I don’t think there’s any pitching staff that’s good enough. If you ask anybody, they want to be better. Pitching is so hard to acquire and you can never have enough

Wow. That's the biggest cop out I've heard from an Angels GM. 

Yes Perry, if you ask the playoff contenders with some of the best pitching staffs in the game, they want to improve. Yet you, with one of the worst, who has been criticized for needing to vastly improve the staff, has chosen to marginally improve. Cool.

7 hours ago, Lou said:

You're obviously wrong.

Haha true... Meant to add that you can't do that... And create a winning team.

The problem is non committal. People laugh when you say "Arte is cheap" because they have one of the higher payrolls in MLB. But that's all due to a few players making huge amounts of money and you know it's justified only because the ends justify the means from a marketing perspective.

You can't pay Trout and Rendon a combined $75M and not also be willing to spend in other areas and stretch the budget. Unless of course you have an great farm system, which they don't because Arte saves cash there also. You either have to be like rays and A's and trade your top guys away before free agency to keep a low payroll and keep the farm filled with talent. OR you have to be willing to spend to fill your needs. The Angels haven't committed to either approach and that's why they have sucked and will continue to suck until it changes. 

And yes, this is a direct result of Arte Moreno. We've had 2 GMs that have been hired elsewhere despite their lack of success with the Angels. That's because it's known being under Arte is a handicap.

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

Is it just me or does it feel like there was so major missed opportunity this off season.  I know it's not over but I can't help but feel like there was so much more that could have been done and that this was the year to spend a bit extra.  

100% 

Anything left to do now that will really impact the team will damage the farm. It's so hard to believe they didn't sign Ray, Gausman, or Stroman given what they signed for. And it doesn't seem like they really tried very hard. I can't believe after all the talk about impact pitchers being added, they didn't add a single TOR arm that's pitched in the last 2 years. Honestly unbelievable even given the Angels history under Arte.

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

You don’t get it.  It has to be the “right player”.  The right player is of course a rigidly ill defined by Arte.  This time is was Max Scherzer.  No dice !

Haha I convinced they go for guys like him they know someone will outbid them on just so they can say, "see! We are willing to spend on the right guy, but we just got outbid!" All while never intending to spend that money.

I'm being facetious... Kinda...

Trying so hard to be patient, but it's pretty obvious the Angels are not going to be competitive until after trout is long gone. They'll refuse to trade Ohtani while not competing, he'll leave, they'll sign more aging position players, continue to be around .500 and thus not get a top pick in the draft. 

Speaking of draft, why the fuck do you give up your draft pick for Syndergaard if you aren't going to just go for it? Angels continue to be the most half assed franchise in baseball. Never committed to any particular goal other than the arbitrary payroll max that's been set.

Ray was their guy and they should have paid to get him. In a sense, Arte is cheap and there's no way around it. The only reason Angels payroll is as high as it is, is due to certain players that Arte knew he could market and it would be financially worth it. It's clear the bottom line is more important than winning. 

Literally everything that front office says is total bullshit because they still have failed to address pitching as a whole. As it stands, they are marginally better off than last year IF Syndergaard is healthy and pitches well. 

I'm still waiting to completely judge them because they can still make a trade. However, they shouldn't have had to.. Arte is forcing them to mortgage the future because he refuses to go over.

Really hoping they get Stroman or trade for a #1/#2 starter. After signing Rasiel, my faith has been temporarily restored that they will get something done. If we ended today without Rasiel OR a top starter I'd have figured they were just going to blow it again. With Rasiel, Loup, and Syndergaard signed in willing to wait the offseason without overreacting. Really hope they get Stroman though.

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Corbin was bad this year, Keuchel was bad this year, Strasburg has been hurt.  

Corbin was great his first year and pitched well in 8 of his 11 games in 2020. His good outweighed the bad.

There's also Cole, Morton, Wheeler, and probably a few others that were available that people wanted them to sign but they didn't and have done well.

Point is that there have been plenty of guys who've done well. Some like Ryu have been hit or miss, but pitchers often have down years here and there. It's the risk you have to take. I would gladly have taken a crap year from Corbin last year after the 2 years prior and the knowledge he'll likely put it together again next season versus the 1 year toss up deals the Angels have been handing out.

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

That doesn't match the board's mood right now. Let them get it out of their system. Also, I highly doubt you're correct, but even if you are, you have to let the people process their disappointment. 

You may notice many of the long time members really aren't too upset. Why? Because they've been burned by the Angels half-assed attempts at acquiring pitching before and are used to it. 

Let the people grieve the moment. Every team in the AL West is likely better than the Angels right now. 

 

During the season I've become pretty ambivalent about them, but every offseason it somehow still drives me nuts even though I know it's coming

27 minutes ago, Justin said:

I will never, ever stop loving baseball. But my love for the Angels isn't what it used to be. 

I'm fine with the team not overpaying for free agent pitching. But if you won't acquire pitching in that manner, you have two options: develop your own or trade for someone else's. They are unable to do the former. If they refuse to do the latter... what is their plan? The same as it's been the last few seasons? 

Yeah I'm just not the type to like watching other teams play each other outside of October. If I stopped watching the Angels and started focusing on another team in time I would develop the same love. 

The problem is they need more than just one more arm. So trading for Castillo isn't it and it's going to cost them the future. Free agency costs money, but allows you to develop the farm which long term will save you money. Trading the farm away now just means they will be in a worse position than they are in now if those trade targets don't pan out or leave for free agency.

48 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

 

This one came from a high Angels executive. So as sure as he was about Ray, I was comfortable sharing the info with you all. 

Oh well. I'll just PM a few of our longtime members the next time I get some info rather than posting it publicly. Sorry it didn't happen guys. I'm just as disappointed as you are. 

This makes it so much worse honestly. On the Angels, not you. Word was that Ray wasn't going to sign, but Mariners pushed hard for him and so he signed. That deal was not crazy money and if that was their guy they should have done whatever it takes to get him. This just goes to show "they" aren't actually willing to pay for the "right guy". 

We'll see. Trout will be fine, but he could have gotten that cash anywhere. I'm sure part of it was that he was sold in their desire to win. Ohtani won't be as patient. He seems determined to prove himself and that will include in the postseason. If the Angels don't make a real push and make the playoffs then he's as good as gone. And so if the Angels are going to constantly play second fiddle in free agency then they just need to trade Ohtani. I know it will never happen, but that's what a smart organization would do. I hope they surprise us and acquire Stroman and more, but I'm doubtful.

Doesn't matter who the GM is. This team will suck until Arte sells. I've slowly but surely had my love for watching MLB fade away and I'm at the point where I'm likely to switch my favorite team. I'll give it the rest of the offseason, but honestly we've seen it all before. Angels are the biggest joke in baseball and I'm starting to agree they should trade Ohtani. If they really don't get a top tier pitcher, which at this point is just Stroman, they need to trade Ohtani (which I know they won't do because of marketing) because he'll just be wasting away here. 

I've always scoffed at people with the stances I've just taken above, but I'm done with it. Sick of constantly being let down by an owner who can't get out of his own way. Sick of spending time and money giving a shit about a team that doesn't give a shit about it's fans. 

I'll be happy if they get Stroman, but if they don't I'm done with the Angels until Arte is gone