Angels in 2030

Totally.
I've been having posters whine and cry to me that i'm always posting negative comments and such.  But look at the facts and the organization's actions.  When something positive happens, i'll post about it and certainly will enjoy that moment.  However, it's all crap and clown show.  Anyone who thinks otherwise and is enjoying this organization and supporting their actions is clueless and living in a dream world.    

Phuck the Luxury Tax.... Ohtani is Gonzo. No way he stays not even the probably 30% chance he was going to.
I saw it..
1. I said Arte is either saving for Luxury Tax.
2. They spoke with Ohtani and all the BS news stories about surgery etc.  He's said he is gone!
3. Arte is selling all or a controlling interest in the club.
4. Arte told everyone we are cleaning house everyone is gone at the end of the season!
5. MLB & Players Association will be investigating this.
6. The fans got screwed... 
7. A single AA Catcher and a borderline prospect doesn't mean anything to me.
8. This just goes to show the ineptness of the Internal workings of the Entire Organization and their offensive and pitching philosophies...
9. Time to change the website name to Angelblues.com

Clown organization

Why would he make it up.  It sounds exactly like what we’ve heard from others.  
 
Arte is a weird owner.  Good in some ways.  Really bad in others.  This checks out to me. 

I think Perry would have been fine walking in and dismantling the team by trading off anyone that could fetch a prospect, which includes Ohtani. 
But before he could make his first move Arte shoved Maddon down his throat and demanded a top tier player signed, which ended up a disaster.  
His drafts have been creative and productive but you can squeeze only so much out of mid tier picks instead of taking a few low first rounders by tanking. Having Neto and Schanuel rise so quickly says he knows how to spend his first picks. Picking up O'Hoppe was damn near genius level trading. 
Minasian is trying his damnedest to assemble a team that just won't stay on the field. No other GM could stop the last three years of injuries so thinking someone new is going to magically do better is a fools errand. 
Not with an owner that has subverted the baseball ops in every way imaginable. For fucks sake, Arte put the team in limbo on an aborted sale, handcuffing Minasian to not make any big moves that Moreno wouldn't clear. 
It has been one long clusterfuck and it hasn't been Minasian's plan to operate this way. 
 

I thought this was stuff all of us already knew

First off there are no half measures in Tommy John surgery. The tear never heals so his arm would be Johnny Damon until it is corrected. There is no use for Johnny Damon in right field. 
This was discussed before about Ohtani having outfield experience in Japan but that was when he was 18 years old and logged as many games as Jo Adell did at the same age. The outfield is not that easy to learn. Sure, he could study it, work with trainers, get the fly ball practice once his right arm can handle mobilization but none of that would come to fruition until 2025 when he can throw the baseball. And if he can throw a baseball he can pitch and he is worth far more as a starter on the mound than right fielder with no real in game experience. 
Then it becomes a question of what his market value is as an established Pitcher/DH/MVP or a rookie right fielder needing surgery. There are no 10 year $500 million dollar contracts for apprentice right fielders, even if they can break Judge's single season home run record, that can't play in the field. So far there are no 10 year $500 million dollar contracts for a pitcher needing a second UCL surgery.
So where is his value at this point? I don't think there is going to be a bidding war for his services beginning basically in 2025. I don't think any team is risking more than 6 years on a contract nor a salary north of $40 million considering you are eating the first year. 
I am probably wrong because owners and GMs are basically idiots with their money these days.  

This is a good reason why his agent should have been open to an extension.  

Such bad timing for Ohtani.  It's too bad...for him.  His FA this offseason now becomes even more interesting.
This is yet another reason he should have been traded during the last 12 months.  SP themselves are super prone now to arm injuries.  Adding onto it a guy who is a legit everyday MOTO slugger....doing both is simply not sustainable on the human body.  Dude is a unicorn for doing it as much as he has during his career.  
I'm not so sure the medical staff is 100% to blame.  Ohtani is very competitive and wants to win badly.  I'm sure he was pushing to play/pitch as much as possible.  

The trick is Skips, you have to pepper in some positive to balance it out, otherwise you're either a homer or a troll. And track record matters. If you've been around a little while, people remember the things you got right when it comes to prospects, and you have to openly acknowledge the ones you got wrong. Just as an example, somebody bumped a thread on Grant Green recently. In that thread, it's pretty clear I was dead wrong about Grant Green as a prospect, but I also hit the nail on the head with CJ Cron. But this is also from the era where I thought Kyle Kubitza was going to be legit. 
The Angels farm system absolutely does suck. You can say that and I hardly think anyone would deny that. But it's pretty freaking sweet having Zach Neto, Logan O'Hoppe, Nolan Schanuel, and other young building blocks on the team. 
 

“But sometimes you need to call a spade a spade”. Agreed, but you seem to do that every single time you post except when you choose to be overly negative. 

Nailed it.  King AO. But watch out - some don’t want to hear it.  The truth hurts.  

So much to say, with this joke of a franchise now 17-29 in past 46 days.   This is kind of a repeat of 2022.   Once was bad enough!
Farm system inconsistent since 2010!
Bad acquisitions!
Horrible big money FA signings!
Too many bad GM hires!
Team QUITS under adversity!  Bunch of QUITTERS!
Constantly in upper half in MLB in most days lost for regulars to injury!   Need new medical and conditioning staffs!
Moreno only cares about power hitting, as other teams are increasing their team speed a lot more!
Fundamentals on the field are lacking!  Moreno doesn’t care about those either!
Pitchers fall apart under adversity!
Maybe the first team in MLB history to go 7-17 to start August, after going all in to win!
Even Minasian, for some of the good things done, also struck out on a lot of the mid-season acquisitions!
Drafting Schanuel 11th when rated in the upper 20s, AND paying him full 11th pick slot money!  And compound the problem by promoting him after just a month in the minors!
Drafting essentially an injury prone late innings reliever in Bachman at #9 in 2021!
Ever since Scioscia retired, consistently mediocre managers and coaching staffs!
Ever since Scioscia retired, disconnect seems to usually exist between FO and the bench!  
This is a franchise in total disarray, and is one of the laughing stocks of MLB!
One common denominator: the unholy trio of Moreno/Carpino/Kuhl!
Moreno can’t even bother to sell the team, when it was an obvious necessity!   He is a megalomaniac!
No wonder they find it hard to bring in a real GM!
Reagins garbage!
Dipoto garbage!
Eppler garbage, enjoy it Mets fans!
Minasian, jury still out!
Don’t let radio broadcast team travel!
Moreno so cheap with minor league players allowances that MLB was forced to change the rules!
I’m sick and I’m tired!
I’m sick and I’m tired!
I’m sick and I’m tired!
Of losing seasons EVERY SINGLE SEASON since 2017 with no end in sight!
An embarrassment to MLB!

Oh sorry Chuck - I guess I missed the title for this thread that said it was an only optimistic, positive, everything is awesome thread.  I thought it was discussing our farm system and prospects - meaningfully.  Good or bad.  
If it’s all sunshine thread then just say so.  Call the thread that and I’ll take reality out.  I’ll join in with the unrealistic convo, if you want, and pretend we have a great future and tons of prospects to take us to the glory land.  Otherwise, how about we allow different opinions and not impose censorship.  I understand business is Angels.  But sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. 
 
Also, I didn’t come in saying these things.  The conversation just went that way.  But I get it - you don’t want to hear it.  I’ll go away.  

Balls sagging a little lower.

So “contribute” in your mind means being positive and supportive of the team regardless of any facts that prove otherwise.  Got it.  2030 here we come!

So “contribute” in your mind means being positive and supportive of the team regardless of any facts that prove otherwise.  Got it.  2030 here we come!

Trade Arte Moreno for Donald Sterling.  At least, Sterling intended on sucking. 

would you rather me add onto the BS floated by delusional fans who think we're a RP away or some better injury luck away from contending.  I'm not going to "soccer mom" it for you kid.  The organization is in a very bad place.  Even a complete tear down rebuild is unlikely because they don't have the pieces to do so.  Ohtani was one piece to use -- but they went for it instead.  I applaud the effort, but it's misplaced and filled with bad judgement.  
As IP says, there is a path to getting out of the funk and become a winning team with the chance at getting into the playoffs.  Unfortunately, the organization/owner has proven year after year that they do not want to take that path -- they continually want to try a quick fix...trying to hit a 7-run home run with the bases empty.  You have almost 10 years of empirical evidence to go off of -- wake up.  Personally, I'll believe the change when i actually see it happen and it's fully implemented throughout this organization from the very bottom to the top.  You just are clinging to some wide-eye kid hope & dream.  
But if you want to hope & dream -- keep doing so.  Don't let others like me get you down.  Enjoy the Angels baseball, continue to think their poo doesn't stink and believe in Santa Claus.  It's just odd for someone to whine & reply to posters who don't feel the same way as you.  But really there is no way out of this without HUGE and drastic changes.  That's why offering some ideas is hopeless -- there is just way too many needed.  Some of which (new owner) isn't an option that's available.  So things are the way they are for the angels....and won't change for several years.  You should be used to that by now.  But if not, you likely got the rest of the decade to get you there.  

I was going to link this too. A pretty good overview. Especially the mindsets around the deadline. Interesting comments from some players.
It's just too bad that Arte had to be so proactive. If you have faith in the  front office people you hired then give them a budget, let them follow a plan and get out of the way. The budget may need tweaking because of special  circumstances during the season, but let the baseball people evaluate players and prospects  and think long term. Restricting them to a win now objective is a risk with poor odds for any organization.
Ohtani's pending free agency has really messed up conventional team construction and planning. This one year boom or bust approach deviates so much from normal baseball operations. 

Wake me up in 2030...it's gonna be a looong rest of the decade for Angels BB.

The brand is desperate hope. Arte and whoever is GM make a great Don Quixote and Sancho Panza team.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/08/21/angels-hope-is-not-a-plan-lucas-giolito

Dysfunction.

I think some are being a bit homerish.  I’d trade spots with 25-27 teams when talking good young MLB talent.  Maybe more.  
If farm systems, 27-28 teams.