floplag

And ignore the position we need the most?

You and i both know that logic hasnt worked for this club in the past.

None of these options are bad, obviously, although im not wild about Torres defensively and i think we need someone with a better glove up the middle for our young arms... but for me these are not difference makers. 
None of these guys put us over the top or in the mix for the playoffs in my view.
Its the kind of move you make to tread water, not the kind that you make to take the next step.
Better than what we have, sure, enough to put us into the conversation, to convince Ohtani to extend, no. 
If this is what we do we should be shopping him, now. 

Which is the crux of the problem, that cant be allowed. 
You dont give up the golden ticket, for nothing.  As an org weve been so incompetent at so many things for so long, this isnt one we can afford to miss.
Extend him, or trade him... letting him walk for nothing, would be the largest mistake we may ever make as an org since losing Ryan.
They extended Trout right about this time, history need to repeat, or he must be dealt. 
Just my opinion but i feel strongly this is what should happen.  You cant bank on an if.

So much we dont know, but, lets go back to why he signed with us in the first place, we had a huge advantage, we were the only club that could offer him what he wanted in terms of his role as a 2 way player, in the SoCal market. 
So did we do anything to win him or were we just the choice that fit his needs? 
If the universal DH was a thing back then would he have signed here at all?
That advantage is gone, anyone can now give him that same role.
I want to extend and keep him i truly do, but for me this is so simple... if he wont extend, you deal him, period.  Just like you would any other player that has his kind of value. 
The Dodgers could offer a monster package, and are also looking at guys like Rengifo on the open market, there is a super easy fit there and they can afford to make that deal both in prospects and money.
WE would be fools to not at least consider it. 
 

Well, you cannot win the WS without making the playoffs so... 
Seriously though winning the WS is often as much about health and hot streaks as talent, the best team doesnt always win it, but you have to actually be in the mix to have that chance so i think i would take the post every year over a guaranteed one win and a decade of irrelevance.
We've experienced both or close to it so... yeah, feel pretty confident in saying that 

Well, you cannot win the WS without making the playoffs so... 
Seriously though winning the WS is often as much about health and hot streaks as talent, the best team doesnt always win it, but you have to actually be in the mix to have that chance so i think i would take the post every year over a guaranteed one win and a decade of irrelevance.
We've experienced both or close to it so... yeah, feel pretty confident in saying that 

Yes, but trading the other 9 years of terrible baseball for me isnt worth it. 
Weve been there, done that, im over bad baseball. 

I dont think i did but ill clarify, Yes, i would rather make the playoffs every year and be a quality team, even if that meant no WS, than win a one off WS and miss the post the rest of the decade.

Well, you cannot win the WS without making the playoffs so... 
Seriously though winning the WS is often as much about health and hot streaks as talent, the best team doesnt always win it, but you have to actually be in the mix to have that chance so i think i would take the post every year over a guaranteed one win and a decade of irrelevance.
We've experienced both or close to it so... yeah, feel pretty confident in saying that 

Current or new ownership needs to approach Ohtani before the start of the season IMO and ask him if he'd sign an extension for $_____ and if he won't and either current or new ownership cannot afford him they really need to bring in a haul of prospects and young players ready now before the start of the season. 
That's just my take.
I hope the Angels make Ohtani an Angel for life, but if he wants to get paid and try his luck for a Championship elsewhere, you need to get a good return. 

And there goes any hope of a quick sale... thanks council

Thank you for the reminder why i dont post more here anymore.. carry on. 

You think they don't do the same? 
The goal is to generate clicks, the retraction always gets buried. 
Ill admit i should not have implied all, but other than that, yeah, not a lot of difference. 

Yeah, im one of them.  Coaching matters.
Yes these guys are pros with more natural ability to play the game in most cases than any of these coaches, but that cant see themselves they cant always make the adjustments without help.  Even Trout slumps, and i dont think anyone here would suggest any coach has more talent. 
Some people are great players, some are great coaches, few are both.  Do they make players better than they are, no, but they certainly see when those players are off or doing something different. 
The one thing i know to be true is that far too many guys have done better after leavings us, than they did with us.  Add to that a lot of guys that spend time on the farm and come back better from hearing different voices.

Yeah, im one of them.  Coaching matters.
Yes these guys are pros with more natural ability to play the game in most cases than any of these coaches, but that cant see themselves they cant always make the adjustments without help.  Even Trout slumps, and i dont think anyone here would suggest any coach has more talent. 
Some people are great players, some are great coaches, few are both.  Do they make players better than they are, no, but they certainly see when those players are off or doing something different. 
The one thing i know to be true is that far too many guys have done better after leavings us, than they did with us.  Add to that a lot of guys that spend time on the farm and come back better from hearing different voices.

All true, but the one thing you cannot say in any of those cases is that they didnt try.  Thats the point. 
Right now to win anytime in the next few seasons, spending is our only out... you cant speed up time and develop guys ahead of their due dates. 

I hope this is where we are all at, but me personally im struggling to be supportive right now.  Im not a fan of Artes checkbook/balance sheet, im a fan of the club.  He needs to decide once and for all who he wants to be as an owner.

Arte came in talking about taking the LA market, whatever happened to that?  Hes not a fool he had to know what that was going to take... and this is not it.
He started on a path, then right at the point where is started to get real, everything suddenly changed. 

Cohen has had one year in NY and could fuck up the next 20 and Mets fans will never say a word.   Same with other clubs that no one can doubt they made their best effort to win, Padres etc... Being a fan of those clubs right now must feel amazing. 

Seeing our team fail time after time in recent season each time of fully self inflicted wounds, is becoming very hard to swallow.   There is no version of this that we can give Arte the benefit of the doubt, he has 100% put a financial number, or on field performance.  

I might have believed that was the best we could do till the land deal, i think thats what killed my support if im being honest... there is no reality where he could pull that off, and not be able to do more for the team to build a winner... leaving me only one conclusion, he chose this. 

and yeah, im really struggling to support hat right now.  We talk about greedy owner that put the bottom line over payroll, how they are all thats wrong with the game.. well, ours is the thesis for that.  He invest to the point hat he maximized his return, and nothing more.  

Meow, call me whatever you will, but the last few seasons have damaged my fandom to a point i dont even want to admit. 

I have been very negative of late, with good reason, but i will say that the one area i think is potentially very bright for the future is the starting pitching.
Factor in who is out hurt and who has taken steps and we potentially have a very strong rotation in the coming years with solid depth. 

I have been very negative of late, with good reason, but i will say that the one area i think is potentially very bright for the future is the starting pitching.
Factor in who is out hurt and who has taken steps and we potentially have a very strong rotation in the coming years with solid depth. 

I have been very negative of late, with good reason, but i will say that the one area i think is potentially very bright for the future is the starting pitching.
Factor in who is out hurt and who has taken steps and we potentially have a very strong rotation in the coming years with solid depth. 

I hope this is where we are all at, but me personally im struggling to be supportive right now.  Im not a fan of Artes checkbook/balance sheet, im a fan of the club.  He needs to decide once and for all who he wants to be as an owner.

Arte came in talking about taking the LA market, whatever happened to that?  Hes not a fool he had to know what that was going to take... and this is not it.
He started on a path, then right at the point where is started to get real, everything suddenly changed. 

Cohen has had one year in NY and could fuck up the next 20 and Mets fans will never say a word.   Same with other clubs that no one can doubt they made their best effort to win, Padres etc... Being a fan of those clubs right now must feel amazing. 

Seeing our team fail time after time in recent season each time of fully self inflicted wounds, is becoming very hard to swallow.   There is no version of this that we can give Arte the benefit of the doubt, he has 100% put a financial number, or on field performance.  

I might have believed that was the best we could do till the land deal, i think thats what killed my support if im being honest... there is no reality where he could pull that off, and not be able to do more for the team to build a winner... leaving me only one conclusion, he chose this. 

and yeah, im really struggling to support hat right now.  We talk about greedy owner that put the bottom line over payroll, how they are all thats wrong with the game.. well, ours is the thesis for that.  He invest to the point hat he maximized his return, and nothing more.  

Meow, call me whatever you will, but the last few seasons have damaged my fandom to a point i dont even want to admit. 

I have been very negative of late, with good reason, but i will say that the one area i think is potentially very bright for the future is the starting pitching.
Factor in who is out hurt and who has taken steps and we potentially have a very strong rotation in the coming years with solid depth. 

I have been very negative of late, with good reason, but i will say that the one area i think is potentially very bright for the future is the starting pitching.
Factor in who is out hurt and who has taken steps and we potentially have a very strong rotation in the coming years with solid depth. 

Sure, its possible, but hes had so many chances to do so to date and hasnt.
Ill be pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong.

We always seem to find ways to rationalize not making moves, im not looking at one off season, im looking at the body of work over the last 3-5.  Every conceivable part we could have needed has been out there, and weve chosen to go in other directions or weren't willing to go where it was necessary to go to get it done.  Business, took priority over baseball.

I do not expect our payroll to ever go over current levels, we will not go into the tax or even approach it.  There is clearly some reason this number of about 180 (AAV) works for Arte and going above it doesnt.