mulwin444

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

The man is earning a spot in the rotation next year for sure and this is great news.  It is one less need to fill.
 
They will just need to fill two rotation spots for 2014.
 
My guess is they will attempt to trade for a starter and then they'll need to sign one.  There are some decent available via FA next year.
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=978,6176,126,512,1701,1292,769,375,2047,6283,3886,4684,1077,232,3340,1303,4538,1451,1757,3273,921,7450,3374,4567,5879,4897,3283,4930,1259,833,5705,8678,6204,105,3830,571,5203,840,2586,7507,3200,755,4366,7059,8044,1011,3990,2074,412,3196,944,1783,6432&sort=19,d
 
 
 
I'm just really proud and happy for Richards.

don't know if that's at me or not. If it is, no that's not the case. What I'm saying is its hardly unique. I fully believe pujols is a 'me first' type of guy, and that torii was probably far more liked.The point I'm making is that weaver too is difficult to some some people. But the team has won consistently with him, as st lou did with pujols.
But pujols being a prick isn't affecting the sh*tty pitching or the injurt bug. Trout doesn't at all seem bothered by it.
Howie and aybar are about normal this year, etc.
I get the feeling the clubhouse isn't very close knit. I think its a combo of no true 'leader', sosh being tough on the players, and too many guys thrown together over the last few seasons.
That said, feom what little we know, puig seems to be a dick. Hanley is known as beinf a pouter. Grienke is known to be distant from his teammates. The blew seems to be doing fine though. (Although they were as bad as us when they had injuries.....)

All from unnamed sources - must be legit
 
Those that don't like Albert - confirmation
 
Those that do like Albert - Lies
 
Nobody knows what happened except those in the clubhouse who are not on the record as quoted but, hey, don't let that stop you from "knowing" the "truth".
 
If only we had  a clubhouse/owner/manager like the 29 other teams who are not like this...ever

All from unnamed sources - must be legit
 
Those that don't like Albert - confirmation
 
Those that do like Albert - Lies
 
Nobody knows what happened except those in the clubhouse who are not on the record as quoted but, hey, don't let that stop you from "knowing" the "truth".
 
If only we had  a clubhouse/owner/manager like the 29 other teams who are not like this...ever

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

So, he signed Hanson? A mere technicality, but Hanson came by way of trade. A trade of a pitcher whom nobody on here trusted with any high leverage situation while he was here (under a suspect pitching coach) for a project starting pitcher who has had success in the past, was still relatively young, and who might have just needed a change of scenery? Sure, Walden is now flourishing in Atlanta (under a REAL pitching coach), and Hanson foundered after his arrival (under a suspect pitching coach).
 
Blanton, if he had performed to his career norms (which were accomplished under other pitching coaches), would have been just fine as a #5 starter. He didn't (under a suspect pitching coach).
 
Burnett, who had averaged nearly 70 appearances in the previous five years, and who had undergone the same surgery that CJ Wilson had, all of a sudden became a China doll.
 
Madson, who was a low-risk signing that could have paid off big time (who takes two full years to recover from Tommy John surgery nowadays?) is responsible for the ruination of the franchise?
 
The hindsight you show here is incredible. But general managers do not have the gift of hindsight when they do what they feel they must do to assemble a team. If even two of these pitchers had worked out (Burnett, in his very little time, has been effective), we would be having a much different conversation now.
 
Generally, GMs cannot be forced to make quick fixes. When a new GM takes over, it's generally because there is a problem with a franchise that has necessitated a leadership change. Most general managers don't get to walk into a situation that is already set up for them, unless the previous GM has retired. It takes a number of years for any general manager's plans and decisions to take root and bear fruit. Reagins was given, what, four years? And we all recognize how bad Reagins was. Yet he was given four years, and you're ready to dump Dipoto in half the time.
 
Scioscia and gang, however, have been given 14 years. And the last four years (under two different GMs) have been underwhelming, Yes, the Angels won a World Championship under Scioscia's helm...IN HIS THIRD YEAR. That was eleven years ago. Ancient history now. Even during most of the "successful" years, this team underachieved by rolling over and playing dead anytime the Red Sox came calling during the postseason.
 
Scioscia, and especially most of his staff, have worn out their welcome in Anaheim. Dipoto needs more time to restock the farm and bring in a new manager, who will be on the same page (and not TURNING pages). Managers do not last fourteen years in one place any more. The age of Connie Mack and John McGraw and even Casey Stengel is long gone.

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.
 
SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.
 
Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.
 
Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 
 
Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?
 
I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.
 
For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.
 
As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.
 
Whose fault is it?
 
How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?
 
How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?
 
How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?
 
How do you cut down on errors and unearned?
 
Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

Just feels you've had this thread primed waiting for his first bad stretch. You seem to enjoy the "See! SEE!" moments. Everyone is fair game to be traded on this team, except for Mike. The consensus was he looks like a nice player, so, you posting "Now that he has come back to earth and hitting in the 260's, can we stop calling him the left handed Trout?" is addressing, who, the one or two posters who made that comment? It's looks a little ridiculous...

He shall be henceforth known on this board as "Former Yankee Chad Curtis"

Just feels you've had this thread primed waiting for his first bad stretch. You seem to enjoy the "See! SEE!" moments. Everyone is fair game to be traded on this team, except for Mike. The consensus was he looks like a nice player, so, you posting "Now that he has come back to earth and hitting in the 260's, can we stop calling him the left handed Trout?" is addressing, who, the one or two posters who made that comment? It's looks a little ridiculous...

Just feels you've had this thread primed waiting for his first bad stretch. You seem to enjoy the "See! SEE!" moments. Everyone is fair game to be traded on this team, except for Mike. The consensus was he looks like a nice player, so, you posting "Now that he has come back to earth and hitting in the 260's, can we stop calling him the left handed Trout?" is addressing, who, the one or two posters who made that comment? It's looks a little ridiculous...

He's been a solid presence in the rotation. 
 
With Weaver, Wilson, and Richards you have the begginning of a solid 5 man rotation.  If they can retain Vargas, even better.
 
However, they need at least one more elite-ish arm to make it solid going into 2014. 

He's been a solid presence in the rotation. 
 
With Weaver, Wilson, and Richards you have the begginning of a solid 5 man rotation.  If they can retain Vargas, even better.
 
However, they need at least one more elite-ish arm to make it solid going into 2014. 

Yep...Was it "This season among the dreadful of the past is the most for me" or "the guy commends fan Twitter pics for their prize fish catches yet flops like a 25 mil per year dead one on the dock himself on the ball field" that gave it away?

Night Shift

I disagree because we assumed a bloated contract for a player who played worse then the player for whom he was traded.  Letting Torii go was a calculated move based upon age and projected performance.  The real mistake came in signing Josh Hamilton after Torii was let go.  Regardless, the trade for Wells is one of the worst in league history while not re-signing Torii, while regrettable, could at least be reasoned.

I disagree because we assumed a bloated contract for a player who played worse then the player for whom he was traded.  Letting Torii go was a calculated move based upon age and projected performance.  The real mistake came in signing Josh Hamilton after Torii was let go.  Regardless, the trade for Wells is one of the worst in league history while not re-signing Torii, while regrettable, could at least be reasoned.

Am I allowed now? Let's take a look. Obviously all transactions aren't equal in importance, but let's just take a look at Dipoto's and see how they look in total.
 
Key:
A: Great - the deal worked out wonderfully (so far) with the Angels getting tremendous value for money/trade
B: Good - a solid deal, worked out well for the Angels
C: OK - could take it or leave it, not bad but not good either
D: Bad - worked out poorly (so far) for the Angels
F: Terrible - an outright disaster
 
 
TRADES
 
Chatwood for Iannetta: D+
Iannetta's been OK, although poor defensively, and Chatwood has, surprise surprise, finally found himself, with a 3.15 ERA in 15 starts for the Rockies. This trade is looking worse and worse. Iannetta has produced a 2.2 fWAR in his two years as an Angel, while Chatwood has produced 1.8 fWAR in 15 starts this year. Ouch.
 
Mathis for Mills: C+
Inconsequential, really. It may even be that some folks miss Mathis, given the poor defense of Iannetta, but at least it got Mathis out of the lineup.
 
Amarista and Roach for Frieri: C
Looked good last year (B+), but Frieri has collapsed and Amarista and Roach - while not future stars - are looking like serviceable major leaguers.
 
Segura, Pena, Hellweg for Greinke: D
Can't give it an F because Greinke pitched well and it was a solid attempt by Dipoto to make the postseason, but in the end it didn't work out so well and even though Segura has come back down to earth, he's still a very good young player.
 
Santana for Sisk: D
I know, I know - Santana probably wouldn't have pitched this well for the Angels, but the simple fact is that he is pitching this well.
 
Walden for Hanson: D
Yet another Dipoto risk that didn't work out.
 
Morales for Vargas: C+
This is the best kind of trade - one that works out for both parties. It should be a B, but Vargas has been injured and Morales is returning to his pre-injury form. Plus we don't know if Vargas will be back next year.
 
Wells for Sneed & Cayones: B
Its amazing Dipoto got as much money from the Yankees as they did. I'm giving this a B, but it doesn't come close to making up for the original blunder by Reagins.
 
Geltz for De La Rosa: C+
A decent trade, although who knows how it looks in the long-run.
 
Downs for Rasmus: C
I think the Angels could have gotten more if they waited longer, but Rasmus could be better than advertised. We'll have to wait and see.
 
Callaspo for Green: B
A hesitant grade. I think this will look very good in the long-run. We have to remember that Green was a 1st round draft pick, and chosen before Trout in the 2009 draft. He's been reading for a year or two now and, in my opinion, should be the everyday third baseman next year. Jury's out, but this looks good.
 
FREE AGENT SIGNINGS
Albert Pujols: D
I hope Albert turns it around, but so far this hasn't been good, plus we've got eight more years. I think he'll bounce back in 2014 and have his best season as an Angel so far, but that's speculative.
 
CJ Wilson: C+
All things tolled, CJ has been a solid pick-up for the Angels: what I would call a "#2.5" starter, not quite good enough to be a legit #2, but better than most #3s. I suppose his performance has been slightly disappointing in that he's not quite as good as he was in Texas, when he should have been better considering the ballparks.
 
Josh Hamilton: F
What to say? A complete disaster.
 
Joe Blanton: F
Ditto. If he turns out to be good in the pen and/or the Angels can trade him and most of his contract, then the F might turn into a B, but this was a terrible signing.
 
Sean Burnett: C
If he was healthy this would have been a B.
 
Ryan Madson: F
Not much of a loss but this obviously didn't work out at all.
 
EXTENSIONS
Dipoto has done well here, particularly with regards to Jered Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and Erick Aybar. Callaspo was OK, and has turned out well with the Green trade, but the Iannetta extension isn't looking so great.
 
 
OVERALL: D
Jerry Dipoto has not been a good General Manager - actually, he's been poor. Maybe not Reagins bad, but he's a far cry from Bill Stoneman and couldn't shine Billy Beane's shoes. He talks a good talk, but in the end the proof is in the pudding and the pudding sucks.
 
If we added a category for moves not made - players not re-signed or pursued as free agents - then we have to include Hunter, who has been a much better player than Hamilton and for much less money.
 
I personally think Dipoto deserves one more chance - particularly because his biggest mistakes are actually Arte's mistakes. But that shouldn't obfuscate Dipoto's bad moves, and there are plenty of them. I'd like to see what he does this offseason and how the team looks during the first couple months next year. If the Angels are 10 games behind again next year come mid-season, then Jerry has to go.

"I wouldn't shed a lot of tears if Moreno sold the team."
 
 
Maybe we can go back to the good ol' days of Jackie "We're a small market team" Autry.
 
Seriously. we're lucky to have an owner who wants to win and will do what he can to try and get it done.  It may not always work out but he's trying to build a winner.  More then can be said for a great many franchises in the MLB right now.

"I wouldn't shed a lot of tears if Moreno sold the team."
 
 
Maybe we can go back to the good ol' days of Jackie "We're a small market team" Autry.
 
Seriously. we're lucky to have an owner who wants to win and will do what he can to try and get it done.  It may not always work out but he's trying to build a winner.  More then can be said for a great many franchises in the MLB right now.