Warfarin

I don't really know enough about Autry to comment on him in particular.  I just know why people don't like Moreno - he is not a baseball executive, and he is doing his organization a tremendous disservice by telling those who he has employed to run his operations which players to trade for, sign, when to reject a deal, etc.

Arte's role in this is to set the budget and tell his GM how much money he has to spend in various areas (MLB payroll, player devo, etc), and in turn let the GM he has hired make the personnel decisions.  The reason Arte is disliked is he has (apparently) overstepped that boundary in many instances, which has led to Rendon being signed, trades being nixed due to taking too long, etc.

3 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Nothing puzzling about trading Quero. He’s blocked by OHoppe and the Angels can find a serviceable backup in free agency or through the system with a guy like Thaiss.

I don’t see that as some major loss at all

Catchers are valuable prospects.  Just because you have a good one doesn't make a catching prospect any less valuable.  If you have a valuable commodity, you don't just give it away for a minimal return.  

1 minute ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Very well put.  At the same time, Cron and Grichuck are MLB quality batters, which is better than having AAA guys like Cabbage getting the at-bats. 

Right.  Good teams look at improving on the margins, and while these are very mediocre hitters, they are a step above the guys we were going to have to use (Padlo, Cabbage).

We need every win we can get, which means that we need guys to help us win over the next 1-2 weeks while players are (hopefully?) gradually returning.  

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

If Perry doesn't trade him.

Heh, I doubt it.  I think the ones that can/will hurt the most are Quero and Madden.  I think Albright probably projects as more of a backend SP, which is fairly replaceable, and the same holds for Bush.  

I am still really puzzled at trading Quero, but my guess is maybe the FO feels he won't really hold up as a legitimate defensive catcher.  If he can't, then that makes him a 1B, and his offensive projection is rather pedestrian then if that's the case.

Madden - I'm not sure.  There's potential there, but significant control issues.  I think that Madden is probably the most variable one of those who were traded.

1 minute ago, TurboFan said:

I’m pretty sure that building the farm is not a priority for Perry at this particular moment. Not even a consideration two days before the trade deadline and after committing to all in for 2023.

Perry is likely not calling the direction of the moves we are seeing.  Maybe in other organizations, where the owner takes more of a backseat role, the GM/PBO would be permitted to make these kinds of decisions.  I do not think that is the case here, and likely Perry was told to acquire whoever he can to help fuel a playoff run.

I think losing Quero will hurt significantly.  The others - maybe not quite as much.

4 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Schanuel is going to rake. Right now he's literally the only player in the farm system that has a decent shot of being a plus major league hitter.

I am assuming he will start the majority of next year as our 1B.  They will likely hold off promoting him for the first weeks, as they did with Neto, for years of service purposes, but he's going to be our 1B for the next 7 years.

27 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The Angels don't need to prove shit to Ohtani. They need to win games and Ohtani can come along for the ride. These guys make it so they can continue forward and not fall out of the race but it has nothing to do with Ohtani, it has to do with finally getting to the playoffs.

Well, no, but they need him to agree to re-sign with the team.  They are clearly going "all in" in Ohtani's walk year, despite rather poor odds, likely to show him they will do what it takes to win.  The team has not really been in a winning position ever since he's been here.  

This team badly needs Ohtani to stay.  They could have traded him and gotten a fairly good (but likely not commensurate) prospect return for him, but they did not, and they are going "all in" to the degree possible.  Even if it is a failed playoff run that ensues, if this is what convinces Ohtani to stay, then it is obviously worth whatever prospects they just gave up.

I mean .. I guess?

I appreciate that Minasian is doing what he can to win.  Likely his boss is telling him to win by any means necessary - hence, the prospect cost, Arte agreeing to go over the luxury tax, etc.

In terms of the long-term organizational health, well, it comes down to one thing really right?  Even if we don't make the playoffs, if this somehow impresses Ohtani and shows him that this organization will do whatever it can to win and he signs long-term, then you can say it was definitely worth the prospect cost.  If he leaves, and we just traded a number of prospects (including a very promising catcher) for nothing, well .. ouch.

Here is hoping this all leads to Ohtani staying and/or winning the World Series this year.

20 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Angels draft and development strategy

Step 1: Draft a mid major collegiate prospect in the first round. 

Step 2: Draft an overlooked big program college prospect in the third round. 

Step 3: Draft one prep player in the first 11 rounds and give him an overslot bonus.

Step 4: Promote everyone to AA immediately. 

Step 5: Promote everyone to MLB by the following May.

Step 6: Repeat

Well, that's certainly a way for a relatively new GM to overhaul the organization quickly, eh?  lol.

3 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

So we want either a National 3B or a Cardinal 1B. Seriously?

LOL, nice connection, but I don't think anything is linking us to Goldschmidt.  Given we just drafted one of the best hitters in the draft, who plays 1B, with our top pick, I highly doubt we pursue one who is signed to a long-term deal via trade, much in the same way I seriously doubted we'd pursue a SS after we had just drafted Neto with our top pick.

1 minute ago, TroutField said:

My only reservation with Hader is 1. The prospect cost and 2. Estevez has flat out not done well in non save situations, who is to say he would keep the same effectiveness if he moved to an 8th inning guy. 

We'll have to see.  But we could, alternatively, have the closing duties rotate with the portion of the lineup that is due up (i.e. LHH or RHH), given we have two dominant relievers to close out games.

I would opt to err on the side of acquiring shutdown talent and let things get figured out thereafter.  

I'm not terribly concerned about farm rankings.  The Braves have seemingly been near the bottom for the last few years, but that hasn't stopped them from pumping out amazing young talent.

Rankings don't mean much.  Moniak came over with little fanfare and was considered a flamed out prospect, and he's suddenly our second best hitter (albeit SSS).  As long as the FO and player devo department can continue to find ways to generate MLB players as they have so far, that should be good enough.

9 hours ago, OhtaniSan said:

I think Hader would be a perfect fit, the big question is the cost. 

Could Adell serve as a centerpiece in a Hader trade?

I feel Adell has rebuilt his value to about where Moniak was in last years Syndergaard deal. 

Perhaps Adell and J. Sanchez for Hader?

I am not sure what he would cost, but I agree that Hader would be a prime target.  He'd probably be my #1 option at this point.

So, let's say target a trade for Hader and Candelario.  

Backend of the BP becomes Estevez, Hader, Lopez, Moore.  Soriano, Webb, and Loup would essentially occupy the middle innings.   Barria serves in the long relief role.

With Candelario, they'd roll with him at 3B and Moose at 1B vs RHP.  Moose sits vs LHP and some combination of Drury and Rengifo can play 1B/2B.

I'd like Bellinger, but with Moniak raking and Trout hopefully coming back in the upcoming weeks, his services may be less needed than the above options.

2 hours ago, drpiranha said:

As many may know, if there is a tie for the wildcard spot, there will not be a 1 game playoff. The Wildcard team will be determined by tiebreaker rules.

The 1st tiebreaker rule is head to head competition. The Angels won the season series against both Boston and New York, so a tie with either results in the Angels claiming the wild card spot.

Toronto won 2 of the 1st 3 games. A sweep for the Angels would be nice to give them the season series, but it is not necessary. The Angels just need to win 2 of 3 to tie the season series because the 2nd tiebreaker is your record inside your own division. The Angels are 11-9, so far in division. Toronto is a disastrous 7-20. Toronto would never make up that ground.

In case you are wondering about Seattle, the Angels won 4 of the 1st 6 games and have 7 games left, so the Angels need to win 3 of the last 7 games to claim the season series.

Yep.  Basically, if we are in competition for the wild card and it was coming down to tiebreakers, likely both teams (Angels, Blue Jays) would have won a good chunk of their remaining games, which means we'd likely gain the tiebreaker edge.

So basically - we have to take 2 of 3 this weekend.  A sweep would be great, but 2 of 3 would basically almost essentially guarantee that we'd win the tiebreaker.

It was rather clear that Davidson was basically the last guy in the pen.  I think they took a flyer on him at the deadline last year, hoping to see if they could eke more out of him than Atlanta could.  Still has some potential, but given that he has no options, it makes it awfully hard to give him the reps necessary to improve.  He would be best stashed in the minors somewhere, instead of languishing at the end of the bullpen.

Barria, presumably, now takes over his role instead.

Probably wishful thinking.  If he wanted to sell the team for max value, probably should have sold while Ohtani is still on the team.  If Ohtani does leave as a FA, that does negatively impact the team value, I would imagine.

Just now, VladdyforHOF said:

I wasn't surprised when he did nothing upon returning. They literally rushed him back so fast. After hearing about neurological conditions for the past year plus it's really not surprised he lost his hand-eye coordination.

The other part of it is even when he was squaring up pitches and hitting it hard, it was not carrying.  He had clearly lost power after his surgery.  Really sucks, but the team has moved on.  Best of luck to him, hope he latches on somewhere and gets another shot.

Feel bad for Walsh, but that is the nature of the business.  I would not be surprised if Schanubel is fast-tracked in a similar way that Neto was, such that he is our starting 1B sometime within the first two months of next year.

Moose will occupy that role for this year, and we have various options (including Cabbage?) to hold that spot next year until our first rounder is ready.

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

How about Rengifo and Silseth for Candelario and Finnegan?

I'd keep Silseth.  His last start was promising - he made some adjustments to his pitches and he had a fantastic start.  Time will tell if he can continue to build upon that, but that's a promising development.

As for the next move - another LHH bat, whether Candelario or Bollinger, sounds good to me.  I have no idea if Rendon will be out for the year or not, but given he has been thoroughly mediocre for years now, I would say it would make sense to target 3B as a place to upgrade.  Moose is more of a 1B than a 3B now, and while Rengifo has been hot of late, he's still much more effective as a RHH than a LHH, so I think someone like Canedlario would be a solid get.

And FWIW, I'd look to get another reliever, too.  I think we can safely move on from Davidson at this point, and instead keep Barria as the designated long-reliever.

6 hours ago, Hubs said:

Rengifo, Suarez and Herget and Davidson for Candelario and Finnegan. 
 

Someone else DFA. 

We would have to trade prospects, not players who are not good and/or nobody else wants  

2 hours ago, rafibomb said:

 

Would assume that Redfield went to hi-A instead of A because Rada is patrolling CF with IE.  Otherwise, I would figure he would have joined the other top prospects in IE.  With Rada getting daily reps in CF, though, I am assuming they opted to put Redfield in TC so he can play CF daily.

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Lopez, aside from April 2023, has been really good as a late innings guy since moving to the pen in 2021.

Get one more like him (Finnegan?), and you have FOUR solid late innings guys in Estevez, Moore, Lopez, and another acquisition.

Can then have say Loup, Silseth, and Soriano bridge to them

Or maybe they package say Rengifo and Silseth and 1-2 warm bodies to acquire Candelario and Finnegan,  with Bachman once activated joining Loup and Soriano as the bridge?

I'd keep Silseth.  He looked fantastic in his last start and made a significant pitch adjustment.  Maybe that is part of why they decided they could part with Bush, too.  If Silseth is viewed as a SP option, to go along with what we have currently in the rotation, we are really solid in terms of SP depth.

Go get Hader from the Padres.  Now THAT would be a shutdown pen - Hader, Estevez, Lopez, Moore.  

6 hours ago, totdprods said:

Candelario is solid and would sort of close the door on 'will he won't he' Rendon for the rest of the year. 
Candelario at 3B, Neto at SS, Drury at 2B, Moustakas at 1B is a solid infield. 

And if Rendon does magically return, Candelario can play some 1B too.

Yep.  Candelario would be a solid get.  I'd love to see Bellinger, given Trout will be out, but I think either of the two would help a lot.  I am going to assuming Rendon will be out for the rest of the year, but even if not, he's been as mediocre as can be, so an upgrade would be helpful regardless.

6 hours ago, totdprods said:

FWIW, I haven't really seen anyone non-Angels' biased bemoaning how this was a huge overpay....

Bush and Quero are solid, but almost definitely 'overrated' by serious Angel fans. This was a pretty reasonable deal. Quero has a ways to go and we have two good young catchers ahead of him. Bush is getting mentioned with things like "chance to start" and "could be a back-end rotation" guy. We have a good crop of MLB arms now and more arriving soon. I saw one independent source at one point comp Quero to Victor Caratini.

Also, Jack Kochanowicz is R5 eligible this winter, so unless he's dealt, you can probably expect to see him added to the 40-man, effectively replacing Bush on the depth chart. Angels could draft a college catcher in one of the next two drafts in the first couple of rounds and they'd probably effectively replace Quero right there.

I think it ultimately depends.  I'm fine with giving up Bush - think he projects as more of a backend SP, and our rotation is fairly filled out, along with some other good prospects that we have.

I think the larger concern would be to give up potentially a very good catching prospect for rental players.  There are not many good catching prospects in this sport in general.  That said, there have been questions about whether Quero can remain behind the plate - so I will go ahead and trust the FO that they have insight, and maybe they felt he wasn't going to be a good defensive catcher.  His offense, if he were moved off catcher and instead moved to 1B, would be a lot more mediocre comparatively.

I DO love the rest of the picture - making a big trade and "going for it," showing Ohtani that our owner will do whatever it takes (lol) to win, and so on.  I really hope this move is a signal that Arte will give Ohtani the keys to the franchise this offseason and say "stay here, here's a blank check, we want to build a winner with you and Trout."  Arte is old, and maybe, just maybe, he will open the payroll further to win a title in his old age.

1 minute ago, mmc said: