NrM

Honestly worth it if Arte decides to sell

Honestly worth it if Arte decides to sell

Strad, how many current threads are you in a verbal battle with another poster?
I'm not asking with any ill intent, it's genuinely amusing to me.

That's it. I'm boycotting In N Out.

Everybody does because they're sick and tired of his combination of endless injuries, lax attitude and horseshit performance. 
The only one that defends him is you. 

only if lifetime... i mean strandling... ah nevermind

Some strong words by Perry.
Thoughts?

Emulate the Braves and Rays not the Mets

Arte should sell the team to person(s) who will do what it takes to build a winner. He can pocket his billions in profit and enjoy his retirement with his family.
Then the rebuild will begin.

Holy shit!
You're even contentious with someone taking up for you.

Using my Quantum Hyperdimentional Macrocomputer, I've calculated the chances of Ohtani staying with the Angels as:
If the Angels collapse and are out by the deadline - chance of trade: 37.4218%
If the Angels fall further behind, but don't trade Ohtani - chances he re-signs: 19.0471%
If the Angels miss the playoffs, but contend deep into September - chance Ohtani re-signs: 33.582%
If the Angels make the playoffs: 43.971%
If the Angels win the World Series: 52.9842%

Waiting for Strad to assure us he'll be back by this weekend.

@Jeff Fletcher I think the Ohtani question has to boil down to what the *Angels* think is going to happen with Ohtani going forward.  We haven’t really had much other than the standard boiler plate bullshit regarding this but the Angels have to have some idea about what’s going on with him right? Even if it’s just Ohtani telling them “OK maybe I want to stay” Great.  He’s worth keeping around then.  Especially if they’re in the wildcard or division race.   
they have to have some sense. How could they not?  That I think determines what you do.  I saw the bow tie saying “no chance” they keep him.  But also, I think Ken Rosenthal is a full of shit media huckster.  
 
I think it’s really tough to know he won’t stick around and get nothing for him.  No matter what’s going on this season.  They owe it to the other guys, most of whom will be here going forward to do what’s best for the club going forward.  Fringe wild card positioning isn’t enough to throw away whatever they can get for Ohtani.  The Angels aren’t going to run away with anything this year.  There’s no reason to pretend they are extremely serious World Series contenders.  It’s just not the case.  It’s absolutely true that anything can happen in the dance.  But you can’t operate with that chance driving a decision like Ohtani.  

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  
The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 
But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

Angels have done well beating up teams at .500 or below, but yes, Minnesota and Boston both have .500 records now so you are technically correct. Even though they were over .500 when they played... For some reason, I thought they took 2 of 3 from the Brewers, but no.
 
 
Their record vs. teams that are under .400 is 7-3. (OAK (5-2, KC 2-1)
Their record vs. teams that are between .400 and .499 is 15-6 (SEA 4-2, WSN 2-1, STL 3-0, CLE 1-2, CHW 2-1, CHC 3-0)
Their record vs. teams that are .500 is 6-4 (MIN 2-1, BOS 4-3)
Their record vs. teams that are between .501 and .600 is. 5-14 (TOR 1-2, HOU 2-5, NYY 1-2, MIL 1-2, MIA 0-3)
Their record vs. teams that are over .600 is 3-4. (TEX 1-2, BAL 2-2)

Still not convinced of this team. Still watching and going to games, but just not convinced. They haven't won a single series against a team that's over .500. 
They'll have to win at least 5 out of the 9 games against rangers, dodgers, and d backs to convince me they shouldn't be sellers at the deadline. Their schedule gets a lot tougher after the all star break. It's easy to be excited because they are 1.5 games out of a wildcard, but that's all by beating up on weak teams. After the all star break they play Astros, Yankees, pirates, tigers, blue Jays, braves, mariners, giants, Astros, rangers, rays, reds, Mets, then Phillies to close out August. Only weak teams there are the tigers and reds. 
Then A's, Orioles, guardians, mariners, tigers, rays, twins, rangers, and A's again for September. So pretty even split of bad/good teams.
My point is that if they don't show now that they can win against good teams, it's pretty easy to see them falling back to at or below .500. 
I know they'll never trade Ohtani so it's a moot point, but realistically they should be sellers if they aren't playing at least .500 ball against good teams from now until the deadline.

I get where you are coming from, and revenues are important obviously.
It just seems that it’s a one track mind for Moreno, focusing on how superstars bring in revenue (some more than others) per his advertising background, while for far too long ignoring the nuts and bolts of the org (player development and scouting) that contribute a lot to on field success.
That has no doubt been a big factor in the constant losing since 2016.

He signs these shitty over the hill vets while ignoring everything it takes to become a winning org.,  because he knows it will bring fans in the seats.
It's not about winning. 

Yep but you still have people here who love to defend him. Really is amazing ain't it.
 
The only way for this team to be successful in the future is for Arte to sell. We need a full rebuild and restructuring.

Won’t trade Trout and Rendon.
But no reason they can’t trade Ohtani, Renfroe, Urshela, and Moore, all FAs after 2023.
Would be nice if they could ever find a Strider or Valdez or Javier.
Why have they stopped signing higher rated foreign pitchers?
This current rotation consists of a walk away FA starter, three inconsistent lefties, Canning, and Barria.
Just wonderful, what is the rotation going to be for the next couple of years?
This franchise is almost a total mess!

Only will happen when the second worst owner in MLB (all things considered) sells the team.
A disgrace to MLB

As if this doesn't EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!! During the Scioscia years they got off to a lot of slow starts, but then would usually start playing well sometime during May. It doesn't happen anymore. It's not going to happen this year either. This team has developed a losing culture. Blow it up. I'd rather see a bunch of kids out there playing their hearts out, then losing every year with a bunch of guys who put up nice stats, but can't win. I don't care what the stats way, these guys aren't winners. They just aren't. Teams like the Rays, Royals, A's, etc...have fielded championship caliber teams during this stretch with a small fraction of the Angels' payroll. This is going to be the 8th season in a row playing meaningless games in September.
The Angels stunk, but were building a stockpile of young talented players before the glory years of 2002-2010
The Braves did the same thing not that long ago
The Astros did the same thing
The Rangers are doing it now
 
60 games in
2023 8.5 games back
2022 9 gb
2021 6.5 gb
2020 10 gb
2019 11.5 gb
2018 5.5 gb
2017 13.5 gb
2016 11 gb
2015 3.5 gb
2014 5.5 gb
2013 11 gb
2012 3.5 gb

This team hasn't been good in almost a decade. Nothing is going to change unless the organization radically changes.

Yep but you still have people here who love to defend him. Really is amazing ain't it.
 
The only way for this team to be successful in the future is for Arte to sell. We need a full rebuild and restructuring.

With this loss, the Angels fall to 30-30. Houston is 35-23 and Texas is 37-20. I think the Angels have fallen too far behind, can't stack enough wins together to catch up and don't play well against the division leaders Texas and Houston. .500 or just above is not good enough this year. Again, til Arte leaves, the Angels are toast. If it were me, I'd trade Ohtani, Rendon and Trout and get a good bounty. Start with pitching first.