floplag

I would love to hear one of them explain to me how a club that won 77 without Trout or Rendon still only wins 81? only 4 games better? And thats before any other changes? Make that make sense...

He wasnt at the top of the list at the beginning of the off season, but at this point, it makes 100% sense. Assuming there even is a season.

This whole thing just feelsl ike they arent really trying to solve it, theyve meet for a total of maybe one real day in terms of hours over 2 months. It seems like the goal isnt a resolution, but to force the union to agree to not strike, to buy more time. Thats why they locked them out after all they said it was out of fear of strike, so if the union would agree to not strike, there is no reason to delay the season and simple move forward negotiating in good faith. I hope it could be solved that easily, at least for now, but i have zero faith in either of them to do so.

I do not want the pen to be a question mark, at all... there are far too many good bullpen guys still out there, go get a couple more.

Its an interesting idea, ive thought about non pitching options myself but i think if we were to entertain such ideas it should be for a position we lack, such as a controllable young stud C. Its not likely of course you pry Rutchman out of Balitmore but i think i would prefer a spot we have a real need at long term if you go non pitcher. If you need a short terms solution in the OF on the interim see how Ohtani feels about Suzuki. This org shouldnt be thinking about rebuild options, if it is then were already screwed.

This is the most important point, courtesy @Jeff Fletcher Character changes, even the game changes... At the end of the day they have to be measured based on what was done on the field, not off it, and certainly not by any arbitrary definition of character.

I cant even count how many ways the BBWAA failed us on this. First, Papi is NOT a first ballot hall of famer. Should he get in, ok, yeah, but first freaking ballot... lol. Second, they basically just told an entire generation of baseball fans that everything they loved, was invalid. That all the best of their era, do not belong in the hall. Why? Steroids, bullshit.. I do not accept this excuse... steroids have been in sports for decades before they were ever banned in baseball, i knew kids using them in high school in the 80s for petes sake. There is virtually zero change there are not already guys in the hall who used them and thats before we get to Papi himself testing positive. Third, Baseball, and especially the MLB media and BBWAA were in my opinion fully complicit on the steroid era, they know, they said nothing, they didnt care, they used it for ratings and to increase popularity... until it gave them a black eye. Who can forget "chicks dig the long ball". The reality is that they were not liked... boo freaking hoo. There are first class jerks in the hall, who cares, it isnt about the people, its about the game. Ty Cobbs ability on the baseball field was surpassed on by the level of what a horrible person he was, and hes regarded as the best to ever play? so much for character. Schilling is a controversial person, does that change what he did on the field? I could have said ok for making them wait a little, fine, but to bypass them completely and put in a guy with the exact same issues on his resume with the only real difference being he was well liked on the first ballot undeserved? Thats an epic failure of the baseball media and the baseball hall. What they should have done was put those guys in, an then put Papi in next year. The hall is now a popularity club, it does not represent the best of baseball anymore. How can a hall of this sport take itself seriously when it doesnt have the man with the most hits and home runs enshrined? I always wanted to visit it, now i really dont care anymore.

That is the reason. If we move either of them, its a no brainer. If we dont then, yeah maybe doesnt make a lot of sense. I kind of hope we dont trade either of them at this point unless its in our favor, id rather go sign Rodon than trade for Gray for example personally. But if it comes to that, there ya go.

I think its a good comparison, possibly as close as you can get in modern terms, but, Trout wins it and im not sure its really close.

No hes just bringing up a years old argument where he felt he had the right to define what moderate means to other people... nothing to see.

I had considered a sub to the athletic, im glad i didnt now.

And yet oddly relevant... ok, my bad.

For this to be true they have to resolve the issues in like the next two weeks and they arent even talking. I wish I shared the optimism, but i dont right now. I hope im wrong.

I have been as on the fence as anyone in the current labor issues, blaming both Manfred and Clark equally... I really dont see how either wide has the moral high ground at all... but this kind of petty bullshit, now of all times, is what will change that in a second.

The guy was throwing total wiffle balls that day, hope to see more of it...

my first thought was, no, next.... but i did a little more looking and i have to say the numbers do make a crap ton of sense in comparison to Gwynn. On tyop of the above he had a higher career OBP, SLG, and OPS, but of course didnt have Gwynn's AVG, but was only 4 pts behind on OPS+. What it comes down to is simply that Gwynn was a hitter, Abreu was more of a moneyball type. having over twice the walks as Gwynn, but also about 4 times the Ks. This to me is the separator.. Gwynn likely forgot more about actually hitting than Abreu ever knew by the standards of their day. But when you look at it thru todays lens, the gap closes. BUT, in all fairness, if Gwynns numbers were hall worthy, Abreu has to at least be in the conversation statistically. Youre right though, the vets committees will have a lot of conversations on this one im sure.

Fantastic article as always @Jeff Fletcher I agree 100% with the character/moving target stuff, as you say, it's about baseball, not popularity or other stuff. Its a given there are already poor character in the hall, Ty Cobb by all accounts was a flat our miserable human being, but that takes nothing away from his on field achievement. Also as you say if the hall want that considered it should prune the list before handing it out for votes, they do not. The hall cant be about comparing players to every historical great. In the past you weren't making the hall hitting 250ish, only three players have made it in hitting less than 260 as far as i know in quick research, but in todays game, thats been rendered moot in favor of OPS/OBP. In the moneyball era, its bound to happen. As far as those borderline guys, for me it comes down to this, if i think of the best players of that time, not compared to other eras, or the past, or changing stat concerns were they the best in their day compared to their peers. If i have to hesitate to say yes, then they probably dont belong. Does Helton meet that criteria, i think i would hesitate but i wouldn't be disappointed either. For me hes the epitome of that border. Re steroids, well, in my opinion MLB and to a certain degree the BBWAA were duplicit in it, there is no way they didnt know, and took full advantage of it to raise the game in terms of popularity, who can forget "chicks dig the long ball" after all. I find holding guys out on the basis of that silly. Bonds, Clemons and such by all accounts were hall bound long before they ever met Balco or whoever they were involved with. If were talking about a guy who would never have been in that conversation without them, then sure, its a no.

Aside from the shortened season the Angels have consistently drawn over 3M going back to '92, and over 2 or close to it almost every year since 1980 with a couple of exceptions down around 1.5ish when they were super terrible, thats hardly fair weather. We may not be as intense as some, but we turn out.

This, although for some of us this place serves to actually drive more away at times. We have no doubt some amazingly knowledgeable and intelligent baseball fans on this forums, and sometimes we have fantastic great discussion, others it devolves into something else.

That depends on how/why they left, where they went, and what if anything filled the void.\ I was a Rams season ticket holder, when they left like they did, ive never rooted for them again. At this point i no longer even watch the NFL. If they moved with reason, such as CAs bullshit going on now, id probably remain a fan. If they went across the country to like Tennessee that interest would probably wane a bit due to lack of being able to attend anything, but if closer such as Vegas that i could still go to a few games it probably wouldnt change. But if someone else came in and filled that void i would try to support them as well. Im a fan of the game as well as the team. The Angels are and have been my fav team since the late 70s, but not the only team ill watch play the game.

IF any of that happens ill change my mind

Correct, and his ETA is '26, thus the 5 year comment. As in no help coming at the position from the farm for that long.

I dont know how they do it, or how many people helped compile this, but these are the supposed "experts", make of it what you will.

The thing i find most frustrating about this, is not the current status as we have graduated some very good players, but for years all the talk was about a sustainable farm and all that, and yet after these graduations its looking bleak. I expected the opposite. Thats disheartening that we were so average for so long making no moves, to end up more or less back where we started.

A couple takeaways... Davis and Jackson ETA this year at SS... thats sooner than most expected i think, and odd in the fact of some recent acquisitions maybe? Nota single C on the list for 5 years... oof.