floplag

At what point, if any, does this club actually play to win versus the inevitable next season roster determination?

Not with the current roster, no. If you did it wont compete past the WC game. IF however Arte pulls his head out of his posterior orifice and makes some bold moves, its possible, sure. Will that happen, i doubt it.

This is why the whole thing is going to be a clusterfuck... MLB has to over think it. It doesnt need lines on the field, thats absurd. Its simple, we all know where the default spots are, 3B or 1B cant go past where the default 2B spot is, 2B or SS cant go to other isde of the bag. Everyone has to have a foot on the infiled dirt if an infileder. You dont want to eliminate shifts, it part of the game, you just want to limit the joke they have become. If they are trying to bring back the up the middle hit then add in you cant be behind the bag but for gods sake dont draw some absurd lines on the field!

Well, hes not wrong, but its moot unless Trout wants it to happen. To be clear, i dont want it to happen, i want this team to make a run wih him, and extend Ohtani and do what it takes to get to the next level, BUT.. if ownership isnt willing to do that then yes, you consider both him and Ohtani. No, youll never get value, but what you get will have a lot of value and will certainly be better than nothing. There are teams that would jump at the chance, and frankly i think he deserves that chance if were not willing to give it to him. This team needs to either take the next step, or rebuild, this wishy washy in the middle things is achieving nothing. And at this point i have no faith that Arte is even considering taking any steps based on his actions in recent years. All that having been said, he wont do so as it would hurt revenue, which i beleive is all he really covets, not winning. We thought we got a savior owner, we got played. Unril he proves me wrong, this is where i am.

This. Anyone still holding out hope for Arte to suddenyl go ham on payroll, please, for your own good, stop folding your breath. If anything hes proven the opposite. No more talk of "the right guy"... in fact no more talk from him period. We know who he is at this point, hes all about revenue, not winning. He wont trade guys that make him money, even if he should to better the team, and he wont spend arounf generational talents that any other owner not based on Oakland would love to have the opportunity to do.

Artes making money, lol

Frustration, irritation, i mean if you were him wouldnt you be fed up beyond beleif?

I would pay to see the team try, over what they are giving us, yes. I will not pay to see the debochle they are, superstars or not. Do you truly enjoy seeing Trout cat a few times a night around a loss? Thats somehow fun for you? I bet even he would trade his performance for wins. This logic is what got us into this mess. People paying to see Trout, instead of the Angels.

Yes but that assumes he would do that, and at this point i do not think he will. Hes had how many chances now to do so? what would change it now if it wasnt worth it before?

Which i worse, that or the guy that couldnt win with them? Hes buggared either way at this point.

There are only two options, not counting an absurd amount of luck, and the answer will largely depend on how fast you want the team to be competitive or reelevant again. Ill admit up front im as negative about this team as i think ive ever been right now... too many years of supposedly working some plan to somehow get worse each year... ive realized the only real plan is line Artes pockets. IF you want to win in the next couple yeatrs, the only real option is to overspend. There is no other path. For all Artes talk about doing what it takes and the right guy yada yada, in the end the bussinessman won out, he isnt going to do that, hes gone as high as hes willing to go, thats obvious at this point. He has completely ignored talking to the media or talking to the fans or letting anyone know what he intends for years now for exactly that reason, old news. So, thats moot. If you want to play the long game, which i suppose we have been it was just a lot longer than we thought, then you stay the course. The problem with this is twofold, it doesnt work playing 500 ball, and you have no real shot and getting competitive FA to come here. and thats before you get to the whole wasting Trout/Ohtani nonsene. Arte isnt going to sell the team, which at this point is the only real answer to get someone who will do what it takes short term wehile building the future. But im assuming that too is also moot. The only real answer is a full fire sale. Before anyone blows a gasket on me lets be honest, take the emotion out of it, If this was any other team, with any other players, would you honestly reccomend anything else? Trade Trrout, Ohtani, Thor, literally anone not under long term control. One year deals, gone, trade em. If you cant win with them, why does it matter if they are here? Is watching them lose night after nioght fun to literally anyone? Whatever the plan or model is or has been these last 5-10 years, its an astract failure in every possible way. Now that having been said, do i think it will happen, no, Arte wont give up the revenue streams those players create... so he will lose them in the end for nothing. Ohtani will not extend, he has zero reason to with the universal DH, we already dropped that ball. If they do this they might be terrible for the next few years, but hey whats the real difference between winning 80 games or 70... either way your not relevant.

Do the job right the first time, aka the off season. Everything we needed was out there, this is a self inflicted wound casued by artes refusal to go over his defined budget while still over spending on players he wants. When half you lineup nightly is guys that should not be ml starters, this is what you get. For real though, what are we going to do now? We now have multiple pos player spots in needd in addition to the pitching. Are we going to go make some blockbuster trade to get Castillo/Farmer/Drury for half our farm? I mean id love it but then wed here all about the sustainable crap again, as if weve sustained anything but loosing. Its going to take something massive and blockbusterish to right this team, and i dont think weve got the balls for it or are willing to spend the money to make it happen.

This

Always sarcasm... But yeah, he was right. All the same argument here year after year and the team is no better off, but sure lets keep doing the same things, the same mistakes over and over and over...

Exactly, its about revenue, not making the team better. And were now almost 5 out and thats of the expanded field so weve regressed even further from last season. They have to know by know, or at minimum have a good idea what his plans and thier options are, if they dont they are incompetent. All im saying is that if they are not reasonably sure they can get it done, then you have to look at options. I still care a lot more for the name on the front of the jersey, than the back, so no one should be 100% untouchable. I would trade Trout and Ohtani or anyone else if it meant getting the angels back into winning ways sooner. Watching two great players on a crappy team gives me personally no joy whatsoever. Barring some major turn around in the next couple weeks, and i mean major, you gotta start selling. Its long passed time if this team actually cares about winning ever again. How many years are we going to have these same absurd arguments?

For the record it isnt about his ethnicity, its about the added revenue he creates that unique to most other players. Could they, sure, will they... remains to be seen.

That winning strategy thats worked so well for how many years now? Youre probably right, if for no reason other than revenue over anything on field, but if this was any random American born player that doesnt have that attached, do you say the same? 3.5 back isnt a lot till you realize that also 3.6 further back than it would have been last youre so the expanded field is the only reason were that close. Can they go on a run as good as the bad was, sure, but are they showing any signs of that to you? Lets win a damned series before we start talking about the wild card again shall we.

They should know now, if they can or plan to keep him. I suspect they do know the answer to that, which was probably the point of those informal conversations. If they want to, the question really is will they. Do we even want another top dollar deal when the ones we have appear to be preventing us from doing other things? If Arte isnt willing to go to near lux tax payroll levels, which to date he has not been, then signing him means that much less to fill other spots. 120M to three players? That doesnt leave much at the trough if hes only going to allow another 50-60. If they dont or cant, then honestly, barring a monster turn around in the next 30 days, you have to deal him now. Dont misunderstand me, i dont want to deal him, i want Arte to extend him and still be willing to do more, but i really dont think thats realistic, does anyone here think he would do that when he hasnt to date? Regardless, now is the time to make that decision, if were willing to go to those heights or not, and act on it to get max value in trade or lock him the heck up, if he even wants to be locked up.

I agree, this is accurate in my view. They have done enough to keep the revenue steady, not near enough to actually compete. Hoping for a little luck to make the post instead of going for it taking someones else getting lucky to stop it.

I think its long overdue. Being average is a death sentence in any of these leagues. For years all we talked about around here was growing sustainable success, well, you have to actually have success to sustain anything and weve been a 500 team while the farm has gone backwards. Whatever we pay trout should just be above an beyond payroll, but clearly Arte doesn't see it like that and wont go beyond established limits and its just not good enough. Im on board, whatever that means. whoever we lose, its time.

Then he should have done more to make the team better. If your him, do you sign an extension right now? No? Then what other choice is there for Arte?

Im curious, do you think he makes that same decision today? Ill be honest, i dont.

Im curious to hear what Trout has to say... maybe Ohtani as well.

Nor do i but our only path to not doing that is to up payroll and thats not happening.

Who would have with the rosters hes been given?