floplag

i did not suggest trading the rest, they are fine for the deadline. Ohtani is absolutely a unique case, but there is no logic that suggests its likely he would have more value for 2 months, than a full season. Youre banking on someone being so desperate they have to overpay, i prefer the known.

No you choose to want them to be, but the simple fact is we get more value now, than we will then, and you should know that.

I love what hes done so far, started off doing the exact right things... but as usual were left wondering if or when they will finish the job, and its starting to look like they wont. A huge if isnt going to retain Ohtani, im sorry blast me all you want but thats just reality, hes gone if thats who we are.

You get more trading them now, and if were not projected to make the playoffs with a healthy roster there is little reason to assume all will go perfectly to do so. Ohtani is the only one i would trade now... they have to know if they have a chance at keeping him or not and unless they are 100% sure, its dumb not to.

If this is where we project, and its about right and seems to be consensus, there is no reason to not trade him not and get more value. Not what i wanted or hoped, but this is where we are today.

We have helped out depth, 100%, but we had chances to help the front lines, and havent, at least not impactfully. Theres still time for Perry to do something but hes lost all the leverage and will have to give up a lot of things people here will not like to do it.

Spoiler alert, everything never goes right. Winning 85 would be a 12 game improvement over last year and still leave us 5 back of where the Ms where so, yeah, another third place season and no playoffs... and once again completely self inflicted as everything we needed was available.

I have no interest in Swanson at this point, hes going to get way over paid for what he is. I dont really want to make a trade that might cost us what we would need to make a better acquisition later such as Torres / Adames / Farmer, i fear it will cost us more than we get back. None of those guys to me are worth Sandoval for example. At this point i wonder if Segura can still play SS or looking at Andrus as a stop gap... this is not what i hoped for, but thats what were down to. The impact window has closed on us, we let it go by, now we have zero leverage, and Ohtani has zero reason to extend. As usual we started off strong then failed in crunch time. Unless Perry can swing some trade im not seeing right now that doesnt cost us too much on an already weak farm, were in deep trouble.

The biggest problem with all that isnt waiting 5 years, its that weve been told thats what they have been doing for the last 10. But yeah, that graphic pretty much sums up in my view why we seem unable to sign players without over bidding. Would you want to play here given all that? Be honest... and before anyone plays the Ohtani card lets not forget we were the only teams that could give him what he wanted and where, we didnt earn that, we defaulted into it.

Perhaps not, but we certainly could have been better than we are today and increase those odds.

What i would like, isnt likely to happen. I think the real impact is largely gone, short of going ham, which most feel wont happen. and we dont have the farm to make any significant trades without taking back bad contracts and that goes back to the budget issue again. Ive soured on Swanson as i believe he will be grossly overpaid for what he will produce and if the budget constraints are true Correa was never an option, nor is Rodon. Dont get me wrong there are good players left/out there, but none that will make us suddenly competitive with Hou or more than a wildcard contender and i dont think thats going to be enough to retain Ohtani. Perry is going to have to pull a rabbit out of his hat to get what the club needs and stay out of the tax.

It depends on how you define "worked out"? Is any such contract likely to be worth the money, no. Most are signed when the player is 30ish and covers what will inevitably be declining years. BUT, if that comes with on field success for the franchise, then yes, it worked out. Trout, as a player, is worth every penny we have or will pay him, but the deal will be considered a bust if we dont win, same with Pujols... had we won a couple WS with him would anyone have cared? The Padres will probably eventually regret some of these deals they are signing but i give them full marks for going after the Dodgers, and they have had some success. so do you think their fan base is complaining about it right now? No one cheers for building the future or fiscal budget management, were sports fans, we want wins... the rest is for the businessmen.

No i think they all want a winning team. Your path doesnt move the needle, thats the problem, it doesnt affect the standings to get an medium grade upgrade at SS and trade away pitching to get it only to sign more. Its still going to cost well over 20+M to go your route unless you think youre getting Bassitt on the cheap when most projections have him getting 15-20 alone, then you add in Adames who is estimated to get nearly 10 himself so... youre giving up Sandoval to pay nearly the same money and not get as good of an upgrade plus giving up a top young SP?

Correct, but as said its our only path the relevancy right now, we have no other options based on past actions. Also, you really think these prospective buyers arent in the loop? Wouldnt you want to be? There is no way Arte is doing this of his own accord if it would damage the sale or his profits. I would be shocked if they were not, in fact i think they are the likely reason for the current talking points. Im certain they want to keep Ohtani and are likely approving any spending we make from this point on.

Excellent breakdown, and yes thats exactly what you commit to, and it lease very few holes over that time. Worst case, you need another corner OF or 1B, those generally arent hard spots to fill. The reality is that this is the path ownership put us on, if someone has another option for how to make this team relevant this year, im all ears.

I never said zero limitation, why does the hyperbole always come into play? I said more than we are, perhaps into the lux tax range.. yes for as much as the 4 years. I do not think thats something the organization and ownership cannot afford. They created this problem and its their only out now. If they arent willing then they should be trading people to build the future. For me its that simple, you cant have it both ways.

No, you dont, as you always come back to this supposed limitation, which as ive said many times i do not believe exists other than what Arte wants to spend, not what he could spend. The idea that this club CANT do more, is simply not logical based on what we know they have tried to do in other investments. So yeah, they could do both, if they chose to, if you dont see that then as you say i dont know what to tell you either. We will not agree on this, we never have.

Its a double edged sword, when you dont have the farm to make aquisitions, spending is your best/only real option. The org needs to decide if its a player, or it isnt. We put ourselves on this path then seemingly got scared and pulled back, it makes no sense. If we were not willing to do this we never should have signed Trout or Rendon, an we certainly shouldnt be looking at 40M for Ohtani or 30Mish for a top SS. We should be looking to trade those guys. For me this is a pivotal off season for the franchise, we either step up and be players, or we go back to the small market angels and concede the market to the Dodgers once and for all.

And? It doesnt change the point. If we cant afford them then we cant afford them, its that simple. We either can, or cant, go beyond the comfortable level. Who they are doenst matter really does it? Youre playing both sides here arguing your own point.

Ill be honest, im torn. If signing him negates other possibilities then maybe its time to cut bait and get what we can. As many here suggest we have limits, that if we spend to much in one place we have only penning for others... IF this is true im not sure i want this and think we would be better of dealing him and moving on. The only way i makes sense is if new ownership is willing to go beyond those limits that Arte would not. I hope they are, dont get me wrong, i hope they are and we do what it takes to move forward with him and fillin the current needs, but if blowing 40M on him means being unable to fill other holes, then at the end of the day its a business. It seems a "cant have it both ways" issue.

Then we should not have spent what we did on those 8 players if we didnt have the capacity to go beyond.

Why is it assumed that if we make a big move we have to nickle and dime elsewhere... thats where we differ. We put ourselves in this place with past contracts, if we did that al the while knowing we had some limitations then we were stupid as hades.

This is what im wondering... who do we trade to make these deals and are we better off with the changes... does adding Bassitt and subtracting Sandoval make us better? I dont think it does. The theory is sound, but the details will determine if it makes sense or not. It needs context I like our young pitching, im not wild about dealing any of it unless its for an absolute no brainer, and im not sure an Adames type is that.

We have never agreed on what this club can or cannot do, and thats fine, but the idea that they cant exceed the tax, even for a few years, seems nonsensical to me. They just tried to spend billions on a land deal, the idea that 10-20 million is a show stopper makes little sense. If the existing budget is the only factor, then were already out of our depth.

Thats what i asked you to do... Tell me how your plan makes this team more than a wildcard contender. How does Bassit and Adames put us over the top?