floplag

This is what im wondering... who do we trade to make these deals and are we better off with the changes... does adding Bassitt and subtracting Sandoval make us better? I dont think it does. The theory is sound, but the details will determine if it makes sense or not. It needs context I like our young pitching, im not wild about dealing any of it unless its for an absolute no brainer, and im not sure an Adames type is that.

We have never agreed on what this club can or cannot do, and thats fine, but the idea that they cant exceed the tax, even for a few years, seems nonsensical to me. They just tried to spend billions on a land deal, the idea that 10-20 million is a show stopper makes little sense. If the existing budget is the only factor, then were already out of our depth.

Thats what i asked you to do... Tell me how your plan makes this team more than a wildcard contender. How does Bassit and Adames put us over the top?

So, sign Bassit lets say, then trade for an Adames type. Thats the plan? Just so were clear? Assuming yes, those guys are going to likely cost 20M+-ish, plus what you give up in prospects or young talent, something we dont have a ton of. Yes, its a shorter term commitment and fits within the budget if thats the driving concern. I can see this IF the extend Ohtani and dont want another massive contract. Again im not saying it isnt a valid plan, but is that roster enough to be more than a wildcard contender?

There is a large difference in skillset between SS and 2B.. just because a person is a middle infielder, doenst mean its interchangeable. have we not proven that?

It isnt that i dont think the idea is valid, but it needs context. The SS your talking about trading for are not as big an upgrade as those available at this point and the pitchers may or may not be as big an upgrade over what we have to trade to get them. The idea is sound, but put some names to it... i assume youre talking about a Bassitt Type not a Rodon for example. Unless the driving concern is budget, over performance, this isnt the best path to winning.

Thats fair... but for me it still comes down to what makes the club better to fit the need now. Is a quality SP a better improvement than a quality SS? SP was perhaps our best area last year where the bottom half of the lineup our worst so yeah, im looking at that for the biggest bang.

You and i both know that logic hasnt worked for this club in the past.

Thats a big if, and it would have to be a pretty strong one to justify what we would need to give up. Who are you thinking would justify that?.

Rengifo had a very good year, and that wasnt true.

Im not going to put him at the same level as those guys, bu again im not knocking him. But if thats true we probably dont have the farm to trade for him anyway.

And ignore the position we need the most?

There is no position on this you wont argue, but the point is simple, for once we ned to finish the job. In the past we made the splash and let hole elsewhere filled with clean peanuts, or went cheap and stayed dry, so far this off season we have in my view made al the right moves so far that just needs to bow on top. Will they do it, probably not, but if they did it would make a tremendous difference.

Im sorry but this is like a time warp... "if things play out"... are we really playing that game still? Every off season the same narrative, and it never in fact actually works out.

I get all that and your right, but it doesnt change the problem. You trade fo a guy like Torres, or Adames, sure, youre better, and you stay under the tax, BUT, are you competitive enough to do anything other than play for a wildcard spot? Does it help you keep Ohtani? If the tax is all were worried about then thats all well ever be. Yeah, you bust the tax for a few years, but you keep Ohtani, generate revenue from playoffs and playing relevant baseball, and maybe balance all that out. If all were orried about is the tax, then we should trade Ohtani now as he wont be staying.

Perhaps. but does it make us competitive once we get there? Thats the point. Im not a huge Torres guy myself, is he better than what we have, sure, at least offensively, but he seems more of a natural 2B based on how hes been used and we havent had the best of luck playing that game. I believe we need a strong SS on both sides to be the difference maker to support the young pitchers, not a bat first SS which to me is what he is as his stats defensively are far below the top guys.

Yeah, we all know that, but thats again not the point. But if you think the budget is the best this club can do there isnt much to say, i dont buy that for a second.

You miss the point... is all were trying to do is contend for a playoff spot, or be relevant once we get there.

All true, but wee also trying to keep Ohtani and just being in contention for a playoff spot isnt likely to do that, if its possible at all. Its better obviously, to me its just not enough.

Im not sure i agree, but lets assume it does, is that all were trying to do?

None of these options are bad, obviously, although im not wild about Torres defensively and i think we need someone with a better glove up the middle for our young arms... but for me these are not difference makers. None of these guys put us over the top or in the mix for the playoffs in my view. Its the kind of move you make to tread water, not the kind that you make to take the next step. Better than what we have, sure, enough to put us into the conversation, to convince Ohtani to extend, no. If this is what we do we should be shopping him, now.

Which is the crux of the problem, that cant be allowed. You dont give up the golden ticket, for nothing. As an org weve been so incompetent at so many things for so long, this isnt one we can afford to miss. Extend him, or trade him... letting him walk for nothing, would be the largest mistake we may ever make as an org since losing Ryan. They extended Trout right about this time, history need to repeat, or he must be dealt. Just my opinion but i feel strongly this is what should happen. You cant bank on an if.

So much we dont know, but, lets go back to why he signed with us in the first place, we had a huge advantage, we were the only club that could offer him what he wanted in terms of his role as a 2 way player, in the SoCal market. So did we do anything to win him or were we just the choice that fit his needs? If the universal DH was a thing back then would he have signed here at all? That advantage is gone, anyone can now give him that same role. I want to extend and keep him i truly do, but for me this is so simple... if he wont extend, you deal him, period. Just like you would any other player that has his kind of value. The Dodgers could offer a monster package, and are also looking at guys like Rengifo on the open market, there is a super easy fit there and they can afford to make that deal both in prospects and money. WE would be fools to not at least consider it.

Yes, but trading the other 9 years of terrible baseball for me isnt worth it. Weve been there, done that, im over bad baseball.

I dont think i did but ill clarify, Yes, i would rather make the playoffs every year and be a quality team, even if that meant no WS, than win a one off WS and miss the post the rest of the decade.