JustATroutFan

On top of my head, I know Santana had two really good seasons (2008 and 2011) with the Angels. He also had some bad ones, including 2012. Of course, he pitched well in 2013 after the Angels traded him before the season. Had a couple of good seasons in Minnesota. Way more success than Heaney. 

Both pitchers were/have been Jekyll and Hyde’s.   Santana was seasons, Heaney within seasons.

You could take even the best managers in MLB history and put them in the place of Maddon and they would still look bad with this pitching staff, especially the bullpen. And since he's managed the Angels, they haven't had deep pitching staffs. 

Madden is done such a great job this year with all the injuries and little to none provided by the front the angels front office 
our line up is absolutely trash and we hover around .500. 

Again, Albert agreed to having limited playing time with the Dodgers while refusing to that for the Angels.  Fuck Albert and his bullshit "respect" mantra.

Bellinger has been slumping ever since his 2019 MVP season. He's been lost at the plate for a very long time. It's a mystery.
since 2019: .209/.313/.383

What Jason said. I'd go further and say, if a team is willing to offer a good prospect, FV 55 or better, you take that trade. 
Don't forget, Raisel is a free agent and, like 98% of free agents, will follow the money. Maybe that's the Angels, but I'd rather have a good prospect and a chance at Raisel, then just a chance a Raisel and no prospect.
A 55 FV prospect projects to be an above average major leaguer, meaning a player who will be affordable for 6 years. 55 FV prospects are generally either high upside low level prospects, or good porspects on the cusp of being ready. And it may be that Perry can get more, maybe a 55 FV and a 45 FV, or two 50 FV guys. We've seen really nice packages for elite, or even "second tier elite" closers like Raisel. He's exactly the type of player that contenders wanting an edge will pay well for.
Or Bonds. Trout is far from done, though - he's signed for nine more years after this one. Maybe the Angels don't win while he's in his prime (say, the next three years), but I'm not ready to worry about the next nine. Yet.
But they wouldn't be tanking for one more year, if you mean 2022. Perry can be clear to Trout and the other guys that he'd be essentially reducing a 15% chance of the playoffs this year to 10%, while increasing next year's chances.
As for Marsh, he's looked good so far. Some smart hitting last night. Looks like a major leaguer. There will be bumps, but consider whose playing time he'll take: not Upton's, but Eaton, Ward, and Lagares.
Got it, and agreed on Ohtani. That means the Angels really want to be a winning team either this year or next. Given the slim chances on this year, I'd do whatever it takes to build a really good team for next year.
Or it could also mean that they think he's ready to help the big league club right now. I've been saying since before the year started, that I think Marsh is (or was) very close, closer than a lot of folks think. He has been ahead of Adell on the depth chart since day 1 of this year, it is just that he hasn't stayed healthy long enough. 
That said, even i was a bit surprised that they called him up now. I was expecting by mid-August, though, and hoping for after the trade deadline. But I think he's here to stay, unless he really struggles, but even then they'll give him a chance to find his sea-legs. I just don't think the alternatives are significantly better, if better at all. Eaton has looked pretty good, but his performance over the last two seasons suggest that it might just be small sample size. 
So I'm taking Maddon's word on this. Inspirational, sure, but I think he is dead serious: If Marsh holds his own--say, produces a 100 wRC+ or better, with solid defense--then I don't think he'll be sent down, not for Eaton/Ward/Lagares.
I don't see Adell being called up unless Upton or Trout go down with injury again, at least not until the AAA season ends, with two weeks left. I think they'll bring him up then, regardless.

I remember ichiromania, but did Matsui get the same fanfare? I cant remember.
I remember Nomomania, too. 
Id say he was bigger than Ichiro that first year, but might be remembering wrong.

His slash line with the Dodgers is inflated because he's hit a lot of garbage time home runs. The guy was great at hitting garbage time home runs as an Angel. He never won the Angels a World Series and will be remembered as just another bum who suited up for the Angels along with Hamilton, Matthews Jr., CJ Wilson, and many more. If the clown ever returns to Angel Stadium, I hope the fans boo the fool for ruining the team. F Pujols! 

The irony of the 2002 Angels is that the 2002 World Series MVP (Glaus) was a great example of a three true outcome player. But Glaus was pretty much an outlier on that Angels' team. They had so many guys who were great at putting the ball in play like Eckstein, Anderson, and Erstad. Salmon as good at putting the ball in play that 2002 regular season, which was a 18.0 strikeout rate, solid for a power hitter. Of course, putting the ball in play can lead to a lot of double plays but more often than not, it helps more than does not. 

Correct. Fat Mike was lucky to be given some great players like Trout, Ohtani, and Vlad during his tenure with the club, not to mention a whole bunch of other really good players like Hunter, Pujols (2012 and 2014 but still overpaid), Figgins (as an everyday player), Weaver (a very good player, at worst, but had some superstar seasons as a starting pitcher), and K-Rod (once he became an All-Star) and he still didn't win jack with them. And unlike Maddon so far as Angels' manager, he had a bunch of solid pitching staffs and still came up small in the postseason, if he even got them there. Hell, even the 2002 Angels had a deep team. They might not have had a superstar player like Trout but they still had some really good players like Glaus, Salmon, and Anderson in the lineup, good arms like Washburn and Lackey leading the starting rotation, as well as a very, very deep bullpen. 

I wouldn't give him as much blame as I would with the Angels' front office. Just poor scouting and bad free agent signings like with Hamilton and Wilson. Of course, Scioscia was part of the problem. He kept on putting Pujols at cleanup even though he wasn't the best option later down the road. Another reason to blame him was that he stopped playing small ball. There were seasons were Trout wasn't stealing bases even though we all know that Trout is at his best when he's showing off his all-around skills. There's no way that a guy like Trout should have less than 18-20 steals a season with his speed, no way! Maddon's not perfect but he's done a solid job considering the circumstances, especially with the lousy pitching staff. If there is one good thing that comes to mind about Maddon, he's the one guy who is pretty good, although not perfect, at getting the best out of his players, either in the lineup (Upton hitting leadoff, for example) or shifting his defenders around to help pitchers. He's actually changed the game due to shifting. He was really the first manager to consistently used the shifts. A lot of skippers have followed suit. 

Not trolling straight facts 
look at our line up made of bandaids 
if I showed you the starting 9 from last night and told you they were a .500 ball club in the middle of july , you’d call me a liar
Maddon is light years better than ausmus and mr flies in the ointment sosh. Hell if we get hot we’re back in this thing. But I doubt we can beat the Mariners twice in a row. Dipoto really built a great ball club up there. 
 

It’s amazing how this team is even .500
maddon has done such a tremendous job
its clear the angels will not be in the post season for the 7th straight year. Bad injury to trout , rendon being the new Pujols, and upton being absolutely useless. It’s time to sell whatever assets the team has (not much).
I hope Maddon sticks around. It’s gonna be amazing when the front office provides him with any kind of pitching and hope the injury bug doesn’t continue to haunt trout 
 

What is so frustrating is that he's actually been a better hitter from 2017 on, so his "decline" is solely about injuries, not performance (so far).
And if he had played at least 140 games every year and with a full season last year, he'd probably have around 90 WAR by now.
That said, I'd still call him the best in the game. I don't think you can call a player the best until he's played two, even three, seasons. Among the contenders, in order of likelihood of being the next "best player in the game," we have:
Fernando Tatis Jr: Probably the most likely choice, Tatis is just..dynamic. But he hasn't played a full season yet, being called up in mid-2019 and then covid. But he's got 4.0 WAR through 74 games played this year and is only 22.  Ronald Acuna Jr: Out for the year, so his crowning--even if he deserved it--would be postponed. He still hasn't had that breakthough "mega-star" (8+ WAR) year, but is only 23 and very, very good. If he has another octave, he is a serious contender. Shohei Ohtani: Leads the majors in combined WAR (5.5) due to being the second best hitter this year after Vlad Jr, and being a very good pitcher, if in somewhat limited time. But let's revisit this a year from now; if he finishes strongly, say with 8+ combined WAR and looks good this time next year, he might earn the crown. Vlad Guerrero Jr: He's been the best hitter in baseball this year, his 189 wRC+ edging out Shohei's 181. Meaning, he's been peak Trout with the bat, but plays 1B - so, like the next guy, might be more of a candidate for best hitter than best player.  Juan Soto: Before the season started, he was right there with Acuna and Tatis, and the guy some thought was already the best hitter in the game, with a Ruthian 201 wRC+ last year. But he's had an off year, and his power has really diminished. But at 22, he'll probably bounce back, but like Vlad, has defensive limitations, although seems to have improved.  
Honorable Mentions:
Wander Franco: Very young (20) and too soon to tell, but this guy can hit--or will hit--and plays a decent SS and 3B. But he'll need some time to adjust to the majors, and by the time he reaches prime form, may be vying to steal the crown from Acuna or Tatis, not Trout.
Mookie Betts: His numbers are down this year (.256/.366/.472), but he's still managed 2.5 WAR. But it doesn't look like he'll repeat his Troutian 2018, or possibly even 2016. Plus, he's being passed by younger guys, so I don't see him taking the mantle. 
Christian Yelich: I only mention him because if he was the guy he was in 2018-19 (15.5 WAR), he might be the top candidate. But he really dropped off last year, and hasn't improved this year. I'm not sure what happened to him, but he's a completely different player and has almost no chance of becoming the best in the game. Same age as Trout.
Cody Bellinger: Yeah, right. Just messin with y'all.
 

[VENT]
Since 2017, the Angels have played 635 games; Trout's played 477 of them, or 75.1%. That's right: the so-called best player in the game has been a three-quarters-time player for half of his career (the last five of ten seasons).
Remember when this guy was the best player in baseball? If he can't stay healthy, how can he be the best player?
I'm bitching, I know, but his slow recovery is frustrating and, given that he hasn't even started running, I don't see him returning for weeks to come.
He's now down to 10th in the majors in WAR over the last two seasons. I know, injury. But that's part of the picture. Tatis Jr leads all players with 6.9 WAR over 2020-21. Trout's at 4.8, tied with Vlad Jr. All the guys ahead of him have between 128-148 games played, while Trout's at 89.
If we dial back to include 2019, he returns to first with 13.3 WAR, but Semien and Bogaerts (12.7) will probably pass him before he gets back.
I really hope he gets through this soon and somehow manages to nix the injury bug. If not, It may be time to pass the mantle along ("mantle" is rather appropriate, at this point).
[/VENT]

Miggy did stated that he was going to play out his final season of his contract, so he's got, which is likely, two more seasons after this one to get to 2,000 strikeouts. I'm not certain that he'll get to 2,000 by the end of 2022 because he's been injury prone for a long time. But there's a great chance that he'll just make it to 2,000 once it's all over. I don't see him playing for any big league club after 2023. He's never been a good defensive player and now that he can't hit anymore, he's toast before 2024. Stanton would be at like 1,900 strikeouts by now if he wasn't so injury prone. But I mean, he's still going to strike out like 150 times a season even if he misses a decent amount of games per season, so he can't hide from 2,000. Yankees are stuck with him for a long time and he's not exactly well-liked by their fan base. They're going to have a tough time winning a World Series in the Stanton era because their hitters strike out so much. The 2002 Angels didn't have a superstar player but that team did put the ball in play at a high clip, which was a big reason why they won the World Series. At this point, I won't get too upset if Trout breaks the all-time strikeout record. Like Reggie, it will be because of longevity. Ruth was once the all-time strikeout king. So was Mantle. And Stargell. All legends of the game who stuck around for a long time. 

Miguel Cabrera might join it as well - he's at 1886, with $64M owed for 2022-23. He'll probably Pujolsed, and maybe with no takers, as his power has completely left him.
Others who have a chance of reaching 2000: Longoria (1514) and Stanton (1482). Votto (1412) and Goldschmidt (1344) might not play long enough to get there.
Trout's at 1215, so would need to average over 138 Ks per season over the course of his contract, including this year. With his penchant for injury, I don't see him breaking Reggie's record, unless he's really healthy and/or plays a couple years beyond his contract.

I just think the reason that Trout isn't stealing a lot of bases these days is because he's trying to not get hurt. But interestingly enough, his stolen base totals are all over the place. He's had seasons where he was stealing a lot of bases but had seasons where he wasn't that much of a base stealer. So who knows, maybe he'll decide to rack up a few more 25-stolen base seasons. I do love Trout's mindset if he was thinking about displaying that all-around game again. It would be nice if he ends his career as a member of the 500-300 club. I know Bonds did it. Mays, probably, without looking up his numbers right now, But even if he's not stealing bases, just having that ability to still do it will still distract pitchers and give the other Angels' hitters more good pitches to hit than if he wasn't a threat to steal bases. 
I'm still amazed that Reggie's strikeout record of 2,597 isn't broken yet. I think someone is going to break his strikeout record within a couple of decades. He was the first hitter to ever strike out at least 2,000 times in the regular season and had to wait 20 seasons until "The Big Cat", who ended with 2,003 strikeouts in the regular season, joined him in the 2,000 strikeout club for hitters. For good measure, the other four hitters who have struck out at least 2,000 times in the regular season are Thome (2,548), Dunn (2,387), Sosa (2,306), and A-Rod (2,287). By next season, if things go as plan, Upton should join the 2,000 strikeout club by next season. He's currently struck out 1,915 times in the regular season. Upton will be a free agent at the end of the 2022 and a few months ago, before Maddon made a great move and put him at leadoff, I felt that Upton only had like 1-2 more seasons left in him. Now, since he's hitting again, I could see him playing an extra 2-3 more seasons in the Major Leagues. If that is the case, he'll get close to breaking Reggie's career strikeout record. 

His sprint speed hasn't gone down at all. Statcast has him at 29.7 feet/s in 2015, the year they started, and then between 28.9 to 29.4 every year since. 29.3 this year, a bit faster than last year's 28.9, actually.
The point being, if he lost a half (more like, quarter) step, it was five or six years ago - and really only an inch or two per second. He might have been a tad faster in 2012-15, but I'm not sure (Statcast doesn't have numbers for 2012-14).
Note also that K% for all hitters have gone steadily up for some years now. Actually, they have gone up (or, a couple times, held steady, but never declined) every year since 2005. From 16.4% in 2005 to 23.8% in 2021.
From the 1950s through 2000ish they've fluctuated in the 12-17% range, going up and down over different periods. But the last 15 years seems a bit different. Maybe the sticky stuff!

Thanks. And yes, as great as we all know he is, I think most of us don't realize just how great--or at least, historically rare--as far as sustained level of super-greatness. Or to put another way:
Two or more 10 WAR seasons: Ruth 9, Hornsby 6, Bonds 5, Williams 4, Mays 4, Cobb 3, Musial 3, Wagner 2, Gehrig 2, Trout 2.
Five or more 9 WAR seasons:  Ruth 10, Hornsby 8, Bonds 8, Mays 7, Wagner 6, Williams 6, A Rodriguez 6, Collins 5, Cobb 5, Gehrig 5, Trout 5.
Seven or more 8 WAR seasons:  Ruth 11, Mays 11, Bonds 10, Wagner 8, Hornsby 8, Gehrig 8, Williams 8, Collins 7, Trout 7.
That is, obviously, quite exclusive company.
As for his inevitable decline, I think the main concern is his health. But I'm not too worried about the stolen bases, as that has less to do with declined speed (it hasn't) than it does with preventing injury, imo. 
Further, his performance early in this season assuaged my concerns that he was going to imminently turn into a .270, 35 HR guy. The worry was his spike in launch angle a few years ago, which usually precipitates decline. His LA this year is much lower, implying that he's hitting more line drives, which will help him keep his average up. 
One more thing. In tennis, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, and Novak Djokovic have continued to dominate the sport, deep into their 30s. There are several reasons for this, including weaker younger generations, but a major part of it is that they are (or were, in Federer's case) so much better than everyone else in their prime. Meaning, If they were all "10s" in their prime, the next best players are "7s," and even if they decline to 9 and then 8, they're still better than everyone else (and, I would argue, that those three are the first ever "10s").
My point being, Trout has a long way to fall. His seven full seasons have been 8.3 WAR or higher, with five of them over 9 WAR, meaning he's a true talent 9 WAR player. If he slips a bit, he might be a 7 WAR player for a few years, then a 5.
So while I agree that he probably only has two or three levels as a 9 WAR player, I think there's a good chance he'll still be a star (5+ WAR) for several years after that.

@stormngt, the Fangraphs WAR leaderboards for 2021 are here:
Position players
Pitchers
Combined
The first two are set for qualifying players only, while the combined, by default, is any and all players - but you can adjust accordingly.
Pardon me while I ramble for a bit. My intention is to provide a bit of understanding and context of what WAR means, or rather, what any given WAR number means relative to other players and major league history.
I think part of the confusion that some have with WAR is that it is a cumulative statistic, meaning it depends upon playing time. So when we say a "2 WAR player," that doesn't mean much outside of context: how much playing time a player has.
For example, Mike Trout has 2.3 WAR on the season, which sounds like average, right? But he did it in 36 games, which is a bit over 22% of a season. Meaning, he was actually on a 10.4 WAR pace. An average regular in his playing time would have produced around 0.4 or 0.5 WAR.
Furthermore, players range in playing time, from brief "cups of coffee" to a full-time leadoff man on a powerhouse offense, who may have over 700 plate appearances (the record is Jimmy Rollins with 778 PA in 2007). Actually, let's compare Rollins in 2007 to Trout in 2017. Rollins had 6.5 WAR, which is a great season, and earned the NL MVP for it. In 2017, Trout had 6.8 WAR. About the same quality, right? Well, Trout had that thumb injury and only played in 114 games, with 507 PA, just barely qualifying. Meaning, he produced slightly more WAR (+0.3), but in 271 fewer PA, or just under two-thirds of Rollins' playing time.
Who was more valuable, Rollins with 6.5 WAR in 778 PA or Trout with 6.8 in 507 PA? WAR says, "about the same," because the default assumption is that whoever replaces Trout, will do so at a 0 WAR replacement level. Maybe better, maybe more, but that's why it is "wins about replacement," rather than "wins above average." A replacement player is the type of guy that you can easily find in the high minors or on waivers, and plug in to replace an injured player. Whereas, average regulars are far more rare.
And remember, also, that there are only about 140-145ish qualifying position players in a given year, about 5 per team. So when you look at team statistics, only about 5 or so will end up with 500+ PA over a full season. Meaning, only a little more than half of any given team's starting lineup will end up qualifying. Every team is different, but that's the average. The rest of the playing time is filled up with part-time players, including regulars who lose time to injury, bench players, prospects, cups of coffee, etc.
In a typical year, there are usually about 450 position players with 100+ PA, and over 700 with 10+ PA (including pitchers). So only about 20% of all players with 10+ PA will qualify, meaning only about 20% of all hitters with 10 or more PA are "regulars," or regulars who play 75% or more of a full season.
The point being, an average major league regular is actually a very good player, compared to the field of all players. And as I said before, the typical median WAR of all qualifying position players is 2.7. But while a 2.7 WAR hitter might be an "average regular," he would be an above average or good player (as an aside, Byron Buxton produced 2.7 WAR before going down with injury...in 27 games. Meaning, he produced as much value as the median regular in just 27 games).
Pitchers complicate things, for a couple reasons. For one, fewer and fewer pitchers qualify, as inning counts have trended down for years now. In 2019, the last full season, only 61 pitchers qualified (162 IP+), or just two per team. Compare that to 2010, when 92 pitchers qualified. Actually, the big drop occurred between 2013-16, with 88, 78, 73, and 58 qualifiers. From 2017-19, it has been around 60 a year, although in the covid-shortened 2020 season, only 40 qualified (this year it is 63 so far, but will probably dip below 60 by season's end...it would seem that 60 is the new norm). Historically, it is a bit more stable, at least from 1970 onward, with about 3 qualifying pitchers per team compared to 2 over the last half decade.
Anyhow, of the 61 qualifying pitchers in 2019, the median was 3.3 WAR, whereas historically it has been more like 2.9. This increase is because, I think, in the current era, the lesser quality starters tend to not pitch as many innings. Meaning, managers are more prone to pull lesser pitchers, so the average is a bit higher.
Back to position players, a 2 WAR player is actually the 70th percentile of all players with 100+ PA, and a 3 WAR player is more like 83rd percentile. Meaning, an "average regular" produces more value than 70-80% of all players with 100+ PA, which includes most regulars, injured regulars, platoon players, and role players. So while it is easy to poo-poo a guy and say, "but he's only a 2 WAR player," that's still a very useful, solid player to have.
Or think of Justin Upton in 2018, when he had a 2.9 WAR in his first (and only, really) full season for the Angels. He was 60th among 140 qualifiers, so only better than 57% of them - so really a "good regular." But he was #69 out of 448 players with 100+ PA, so he was better than about 85% of all players with significant playing time.
It is also easy to forget just how good a 4 WAR player is, which is where we start getting to different degrees of stardom. If 2-3 WAR is an average regular and 3-4 a good regular, 4 is the "gateway to the stars." From 2010-19, a ten-year span, there were only 440 player seasons of 4+ WAR, or 44 per year. Meaning, a major league team--on average, has one or two 4 WAR players, very rarely more than that.
Or if we want to come closer to whole numbers, the average major league team has only one position player of 4.5 WAR or higher, two position players of 3.5 or higher, and four or five position players of 2 WAR or higher, and about eleven position players with positive WAR (0.1 better).
Higher WARs are even more rare. In any given season, there is usually only one player with 9 WAR or higher in the entire major leagues, meaning if a player reaches 9 WAR, chances are he had the best season in the majors. There are on average only about two 8+ WAR players, five 7+ WAR players, a dozen 6+ WAR players, and two dozen 5+ WAR players.  Meaning, if you reach 8 WAR, chances are you're one of the two best players in the game; 7 WAR and you're top 5, 6 WAR one of the dozen or so best, and a potential MVP candidate. A typical team's best player is around 5 WAR, plus or minus.
Or to put it another way, the vast majority (about 80%) of 100+ PA players have between -0.5 WAR and 3.9 WAR. Only about 10% are above (4+ WAR), and only about 10% are below (-0.6 WAR or worse). Only about 5% are 5+ WAR, and only about 3% have -1.1 WAR or worse.
10 WAR is a historic season, with only 53 such position player seasons since the two major leagues in 1901, most of them by a handful of all-time greats. Or if we look at only the laste half century, from 1970 to the present, only 13 such seasons have occurred: Bonds five times, Trout twice, and once each by Morgan, Ripken, Henderson, A Rodriguez, Posey and Betts. In that same span of time, on 23 seasons have been -2.0 or lower, with Chris Davis' -3.1 in 2018 one of the ten worst seasons in major league history, and the 4th worst qualifying season.
Anyhow, I rambled on way too long. Hopefully this provides context for those interested in better understanding what a given WAR number means.

Well damnit!  Someday it has to happen.  Why not this time?  LOL

The bullpen needs a solid upgrade.  Two solid late innings guys need to be acquired.   Mayers is pitching like a 4th option currently anyway.
DO NOT bring in Cishek anymore with men on base.
DO NOT waste Wantz.  Give him a chance!
Only play Rengifo in the INF for the rest of the season, now that they added Adam Eaton.
If Reds fall back the next two weeks, try to pull off a deal for Castillo.

I am not sure why you are so angry. Taylor Ward is not a very good player based solely on his performance. Maybe it changes, maybe not.
I don't know why you chose to make it personal, it's just baseball, but whatever.
I hope you have a better day tomorrow. No ill will on my part.
Peace out.