AngelsFanSince86

No way you do that. If he continues to play the way he has all year then the only way you trade him it's if you get a top prospect back. Packaging Cozart guarantees you don't get a top prospect back so what would even be the point? Cozart will likely get another shot this year too prove himself if he can ever stay healthy. If and when he proves he just can't hit they need to just let him go.

I would be livid if they moved. I go to 10-15 games a year. My family has season tickets that we share. If they moved to LB we would no longer renew them and I would hardly ever go to a game. I lived in SF when the 49ers moved from Candlestick down to Santa Clara. I went to one game and the travel time there and traffic after left a bad taste in my mouth. If I still lived in the area its possible I would go to another game (not likely), but only because one NFL game is so much more meaningful than an MLB game. If the Angels moved to Long Beach I might go occasionally just so my son can watch Mike Trout, but ultimately I'd rather save the time and money and watch it on TV. I know a lot of people who go to a couple games a year who would rarely, if ever, attend another game. They would have to hope that the fan base in Long Beach would make up for that loss. I honestly doubt it would. The ease of access not only makes it a better experience, but it makes the number of fans who have a 15 minute drive or less to the stadium significantly greater than it would be in Long Beach. Good luck during the week. Right now parents can take their kids to weeknight games, leave by 9, and have their kids in bed by 9:30. There would be very few people in LB that could do the same. You would have to leave too early for it to be worth it.

I don't think Simmons should be 1 or 2. I actually, for the time being, like him hitting somewhere between 4-6. He's the one guy on the team you can count on most to make contact. He's the guy you want coming up with someone on 3rd cause he's most likely to get a hit or at least the sacrifice hit. Trout won't get a lot of pitches to hit with RISP and often gets intentionally walked. You need to have someone behind him that can make contact in those situations. Simmons is the only guy we have right now that can do that.

Well they do allow you to bring water into the park as long as it hasn't been opened yet. I haven't bought water at the stadium in very long time.

Well the price for "premium" beer has gone up significantly every year. It was "only" about $10 just a few years ago and now is 50% more this year at $15 a beer.

Hopefully not at all... ...but in all seriousness I agree with your thinking. It's impossible to say what he should get because of how inconsistent and injured he has been so far. If he continues to battle injuries and put up 4.00 ERAs, then I don't think he's worth more than 2/$14M or 3/$20M. If he can pitch 180+ innings and pitches around 3.50 ERA then I think he is worth the numbers you listed.

Yeah and they have Seattle at #10. BR is pretty terrible when it comes to their own material. I have the app because they post a lot of other articles from various sources and twitter posts throughout the day that give updates around the league as they are happening (which is helpful for me because I don't have a twitter account). But the writers there are awful, narrow minded, and uninformed.2

Yep. Giants are mine too for these exact reasons. I was living up there during the 2010-2014 run they had. Fun team to watch as they were never really the best team on paper, but always found ways to win.

That would be too generous to him.

Yeah that is kind of how I feel about it. It's really all speculation and hope at this point. He hasn't shown anything at the MLB level to convince me he will be successful at the plate. And without being an above average hitter he really doesn't have much value. That is why my bet would 100% be on Fletcher getting an opening day spot if its between the two (although its always possible they both get it). Fletcher will be there because he has proven to be a very good utility player while doing enough with the bat to not be a total liability.

Remains to be seen who will be overall more valuable, but I can pretty much guarantee Fletcher is on the opening day roster. At the very least he is a solid utility player so even if he isn't hitting he has a fair amount of value there. Despite being on pace for 36 doubles, he wasn't very good overall as a hitter. However, in only 80 games he played great enough defense to be worth about 2 WAR by both baseball reference and fangraphs. Ward is an unknown. He played solid defense from what I saw at 3B and should only get better, but it's hard to envision him doing enough in ST to earn a starting role (although I'm certainly hoping for it). Even if he does, wouldn't Fletcher still be on the roster as their utility guy? Bottom line is that Fletcher is a versatile player with above average defense. For those reasons alone he will have a role on the team to start the season.

I'd be interested in Shelby Miller on a cheap deal possibly with some team options in case he is able to stay healthy and pitch to his potential. However, they would need to sign at least Kikuchi on top of that as well as have a couple long relievers in their pen.

Exactly. And I find it hard to believe after clearly stating he wants to have a top 5 farm system that Eppler would give away his second round pick and international money for a player like Grandal.

Where does it say the experts don't think they have it? Many of those guys named were just drafted. Adell wasn't ranked until after his rookie season. Then when the pre season rankings came out he was in the 50-75 range. Now he's considered top 20 and predicted by some to possibly be top 5 by the time so the preseason rankings come out. Griffin Canning was previously unranked. That doesn't mean they "found magic". It just means they were previously unproven despite having the necessary tools. Point being the Angels system could be top 5 very quick. And Eppler specifically said they are willing to spend for the right guys. They do want to win now, but they aren't going to use major prospect currency or spend $140M on a pitcher thats dealt with injuries constantly his whole career.

Sure, keep making it into a here and now situation. Its not about him moving his family after the fact. It's about the fact he moved them here to begin with. You think he would have moved his family here if there wasn't agreement in place? Arte wanted to bring a HOFer to Anaheim to be a part of the organization for many years. This isn't about speculating what the Angels are thinking. This is about the deal that is already in place between them. Arte isn't going to release him is all I'm saying and it has nothing to do with not wanting to eat the money or Pujols' feelings. It is a business decision. You are concerned with team performance right now. Arte is concerned with his business in the long term. Signing Pujols was a long term business decision. One of the most important parts of it being Pujols affiliating himself with the Angels post-retirement. You screw the pooch on that one if you release him when he still wants to give it a shot. How do you know he hasn't already discussed his retirement tour with them? That maybe they are keeping it quiet for now?

It likely has nothing to do with Trout, but it isn't just because Arte doesn't want to eat the money. Arte signed him to be with the Angels long after he retires. Essentially their business relationship extends beyond Pujols playing baseball. Meaning there has to be a level of respect involved. Don't you think in 2012 offseason that Arte assured Pujols he would get to play out his contract until he decides to retire? He gave him 10 years knowing he wouldn't make it that long. He's not going back on his word when he still intends to do business with him for the next decade.

That is a separate point. OP was saying he should be released. At some point they will work out a deal. However, Pujols has to be on board with it and currently he wants to play next season. At some point they just sit him and eventually he will retire after working out a deal with Arte. I've never heard of a player of his caliber willing to waste away on the bench. Obviously hes not just going to give up the money though. No, they really shouldn't. They gave him the deal they gave him and it includes a service contract. He moved his family here so they could establish themselves. I agree that he needs to show some respect himself and retire/work out a deal, but if the Angels don't let it play out then what makes you think he will want to stay with the organization? He wouldn't have moved his family here if he wasn't assured they would stick to their end of the bargain. Releasing him is a breach of trust. It would potentially make all these years of putting up with his BSOML only to constantly get injured and put up weak numbers all for nothing. He was supposed to give us some great years and didn't. Regardless of how that played out we were always going to be at this point. The Angels knew that and they still made the deal. They aren't going to release him and as much as it pains me to say it I agree with it. The main part of this is not just about respecting the player, although that is part of it. Of course no FA ever signed a deal specifically because they felt they would be respected more, but it plays a part in the decision making process for some of these teams. And this has nothing to do with the here and now. This is a building block for the future of the organization. One part of building a top tier ML baseball team is being surrounded by great/HOF players. Angels don't have much in that department. They have Vlad and will soon have Pujols. Maybe one day Trout. It means something to have them around. It means something to the fans, to the players on the team, and to FAs trying to decide where to go. Ultimately things like money and competitiveness are the driving factors in FA decisions, but sometimes its close and things like this matter. It sucks watching Pujols waste a roster space for all that money right now, but don't tell me you think its a bad or even neutral thing to have him around the organization for the next decade plus after he retires.

Exactly. And they aren't stupid for doing it. This was part of the whole deal to begin with. Pujols is one of the greatest players of all time. Having him as a part of your organization after he retires is a big deal. Other more established organizations have several baseball greats that have some sort of role on the team. It creates a certain culture. Something teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals, Dodgers, etc. have. You have to start somewhere. When Arte brought in Pujols this was a major part of why he did it. It sucks right now because he sucks, but long term for the organization it is a great move. They would be stupid to let him go at this point. It would all be essentially for nothing. He moved his family here. His kids go to school here. This was always meant to be a permanent deal.

Trout extension easily. Other than that, signing Harper on a deal worth less than $300M total and less than $30M AAV would be my next wish.

I could see it happening, but it would still surprise me. Grienke had just put up an incredible 3 year stretch and had just come off a 9 WAR season. The d-backs are currently shopping him around to unload that salary. He's an active example of what happens when you sign those contracts and he's likely being most actively shopped to those teams that have the money to take him on. And this is a guy, who other than 2016, has been very good. I could be wrong, but it seems the Grienke example would serve as a fresh reminder of what not to do rather than serve as a benchmark.

What I don't get is how everyone, including baseball execs, keep talking about the quality of this FA class. Harper has not lived up to expectations, Donaldson has been injured lately, Adam Jones has declined, Andrew mccutchen fell off the map relative to his career, Matt Harvey completely fell off the map, keuchel is still solid but not the ace he was when this FA class was hyped, Garrett Richards can't stay healthy, Clayton Kershaw has had health problems so stayed on with the dodgers, and Jose Fernandez is tragically no longer part of the equation. I know there have been articles that have addressed this, but I still keep hearing about the depth of this class like it's still 2015.

Well if it makes the east more competitive then it at least should make it easier to compete for a wild card spot. Rather than letting the red Sox and Yankees beat up on them to pad their win column.

Yeah I know you are saying you just want to contend for a WC spot. I agree, but there isn't much they can do other than what they have been doing. And I guess that is the point. This thread is about holding on to our top prospects. Suarez and Jones for Realmuto would never happen. I was being facetious to prove the point that even with all those major upgrades the Angels would still hardly be at the Astros level. And the overarching point is that you shouldn't trade away any top prospects unless that trade is going to be what puts you over the top. You should never trade young players for a couple years of a ML player unless you are ready for it and the Angels aren't. The Angels are already a team capable of competing for the WC, health permitting. Nothing they can do this offseason is going to change that very much. You don't trade away a long term asset so that for the next couple years you can have a slightly better chance at maybe making the playoffs. I'm sick of .500 ball, but I also understand you don't build a contender overnight. Eppler has been working every year to build up the team. He went out and got Simmons. He got Upton and extended him. He got Ohtani to sign here.The farm system continues to improve. With a few smart signings and maybe some low key trades not including any of the top prospects the Angels could still contend for a WC spot. It all depends on the health of their pitching and that is true regardless of what they do.

Fair enough. I don't read every single thread here in it's entirety. But i can say if you think we only need 4 upgrades then you are delusional. Maybe if those 4 are significant upgrades you would be correct. Lets trade Suarez and Jones for Realmuto, sign Harper to a 5 yr/$100M contract to play 1B after Pujols agrees to be bought out, trade Canning for Kluber straight up, and sign Keuchel to a 3 yr/50M contract. If that is what you are talking about then yes I believe that makes us a contender. We would still lack any sort of depth to account for any injuries/deep playoff runs, but we would certainly be on the Astros level at that point. However, even then, we would have a mediocre bullpen at best and no money left to improve it. As a matter of fact, even with these completely unrealistic trade/signing scenarios the Angels would still be over the luxury tax because of the added salaries to Kluber and Realmuto. There is a major difference between playing for a wild card spot and being a true contender. The Angels literally could not get to the level of the Red Sox/Astros/Dodgers/Yankees even if they traded any and all prospects. When guys like Matt Kemp, Chris Taylor, Marwin Gonzalez, Brock Holt, etc. are depth on their respective teams and would be in the mix with Simmons and Calhoun as the Angels 4th best hitter behind Trout, Ohtani, and Upton then you should realize you aren't even close to those teams level. Its easy to look at the starting roster at face value and say add a couple guys and we are set. But as long as the Angels are trotting out the Martes, Cowarts, and EY Jr.s of the world as their depth then they will not contend. The depth those other teams have is from their farms. Plain and simple. Eppler has taken one of the worst farm systems in baseball to a respectable, average farm with some studs. You don't need a crystal ball to see that given a couple more years Eppler will continue to draft well, the guys he has drafted in the last few years will finally be old enough to contribute, and all levels of the system will have good ball players. Like I said though, I'm fine with trading. Only if its for a guy with a minimum 3 years left and only if it doesn't mean trading 3 or 4 of the top 10 prospects in our system. The Simmons trade is a perfect example.

Alright, the Dipoto example was a bit extreme. Well let me ask you this: what 4 guys would we need to be in the postseason mix? Remember: we need a catcher, a 1B (yes, Pujols is here to stay and thats a major problem that likely isn't going away this year but it doesn't negate the fact that we need one long term), 2B or 3B (Cozart and Fletcher have upside but are both question marks with the bat. If they are both solid then that just means we need a good utility IFer), ace SP, reliable middle rotation SP, solid 4th OFer, Closer and long reliever. And this is assuming Calhoun plays closer to his second half then his first half. Long reliever can possibly come from rotation depth and two of 2B, 3B, and utility IF will be covered by Fletcher and Cozart so just one of those needs to filled. That still leaves 8 positions that need upgrades in some capacity to be a real contender. So again: what 4 players do you propose, for discussion sake, that we go out and get? I'd like to hear a legitimate proposal as to how the Angels can use their current assets (money and prospects) to become a contender while not sacrificing the future. And as an aside: nobody is asking you to accept a pipedream. Holding onto prospects and trading away ML talent for prospects instead of the reverse is a major part of why the Cubs, Astros, Yankees, Dodgers, etc. are all successful. Its not a pipedream, it is a proven strategy. Those teams success is built on homegrown talent. Hell, take the A's for example. They come out of nowhere every few years because all they do is hoard prospects and trade their stars for more. Edit: Thought I would look this up to see. Despite consistently having one of the lowest payrolls in baseball and not signing high priced FAs or trading away much prospect depth (as far as I know), the A's have had 9 postseason berths since (and including) 2000. The Angels have 7 despite having one of the highest payrolls during that span. 2002 was the last time their payroll was in the bottom half.