floplag

I agree with those who say your not getting the moon... to a point.
I think we could get more than they do, but not by miles.
I thnik you could get a good recent call up type guy, and a solid prospect.
Lets be honest there are not a lot of teams that can afford him, and fewer of those in the hunt... the Dodgers are the obvious choice and they have the parts to make that happen without it being a tremendous loss to them
You get a package that might include on of their younger pitchers like Miller, one of the top kids like Pages or Busch... thats realistic.  They also seem to need MiF help toss in Rengifo to help bridge that gap and maybe get slightly better back. 

22 minutes ago, wopphil said:

This. The schedule is brutal. There is little chance the Angels play even .500 ball going forward, let alone .667. 

Thank you, another reason this miracle is unlikely. 

On 7/10/2023 at 7:53 PM, Slegnaac said:

When Ohtani came to the US he signed with the team that was able pay him the highest amount.

I will not be surprised if the same thing happens with his next contract.

No, he signed with the team that could give him a two way role he wanted, in the location he wanted, that paid him the most money.

8 hours ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Counterpoint: the Rockies are absolutely known as the team that traded Arenado for complete garbage. If you end up getting a mediocre-at-best haul (which is the likely outcome) you will def be known as the guy that traded Ohtani for pennies during an MVP season

To you perhaps, to me they made an effort to make the most of a giant shit sandwich.  It ddint work out.  You know what definitely wont, not doing anything. 

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think it’s 3 things…

-Arte wants to re-sign Ohtani and doesn’t believe he’ll be able to do it if he trades him. You guys can all say “that’s not true” and you’re technically correct, but I have been told directly that the Angels don’t believe they can re-sign him if they trade him. 
 

-Arte wants the revenue from two months of Ohtani.

-Arte doesn’t want to be known as the guy who traded Ohtani, especially not now that he’s a rental and it’s unlikely the return is going to be anything too exciting. 
 

I don’t know what order you’d put those in but those are the reasons. 

You obviously know more about this than io do, but... i see this very differently. 

If he doesnt believe he can re-sign him if he trades him what makes him think he can at all?  Hes had every chance and failed to date. 

The revenue... well thats the ugly truth of it right there. 

Being the guy who traded him is a lot better than the guy that let him walk for nothing.   I dont see how this is even a thing, any other player in this situation would have already been on the block.  No hes not just any player but should that change the logic completely? 

20 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Halo farm is more like a small garden.

But it has some fruit, just not as much as some others. 

Im going to leave this one alone this time, not worth the headache, but Its kinda funny how if we want to trade for a guy it will cost us the farm but if we trade a guy we wont get anything real in return. 
Youre never going to get full value, we all know that the time for that is long passed and we already blew that, but something is better than nothing. 
I think the Dodgers are waiting on that call and make a lot of sense, but im not going to fight this fight any further... whatever happens, happens. 

5 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I totally agree with this. 

i partially agree.
Perry did what he could within Artes limits.  We still had holes we didnt fill that were available that we passed on to stay within budget. 
No one can plan for the misfortune weve had but somehow we say that every season it seems. 
Arte has spent, i give him full marks for that, but he started a path he was never willing to finish.  By giving 3 players over half the payroll putting us in a place where the only path to immediate success was spending he isnt willing to do. 

11 hours ago, Tank said:

If you want to sign Ohtani this off season, I believe you need to do something big to get to the playoffs and give yourself a decent chance to play late into October. 
 

If that means trading for someone like Scherzer or Chapman to bolster your pitching staff so you can go deeper, I’d do it without batting an eye. 

I agree, largely because weve backed ourselves into this corner and we have no other play to make.
Im still highly skeptical that Arte will ever bust the tax, so till he does im going to retain my doubts even though thats exactly what he needs to do, must do in fact, for it to matter.
Im not wild about Scherzer per se, his demeaner and attitude i feel like he needs to be on a name, a glamour team, i feel like he doesn't respect  a club like ours.  But i also think there are better fits available as well. 

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

It's not my money though. 

I feel like if you're all in, you're ALL in without restrictions. 

This.
If there was ever a year, if there is ever going to be a year, this has to be it.
You cant qualify it, you cant put a budget on it, you get get what it takes and you do it sooner rather than later.
If this isnt that time, then honestly, what would it take for that time to happen?

3 hours ago, Lhalo said:

Since @floplag doesn’t like to come around here but posts important content elsewhere... It’s nice to know our tax dollars help fund this organization. At part of Canada is cutting this shit off.

 

Please leave me out of this in the future.
Thanks

OK im going to take my leave of this conversation, its pure speculation, no one knows, but everyone's convinced.
Hes not going to be traded, that seems obvious, and fighting the whole board again isnt what i hoped this conversation would be. 

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The one thing I feel the most confident in regarding the whole situation is this:

Ohtani is going to play where he wants to play, even if another team is offering him more money. 
 

The guy doesn’t care about money and has literally no life outside of the ballpark.

Fair enough, im equally convinced that if he wanted to play here we wouldn't even be having this conversation, he would have already extended, and yet here we are.
I fail to see how one playoff run suddenly changes all that unless you go VERY deep.  But thats the gamble, youre going all in with terrible pot ods. 

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

No chance you’re getting two top 100 prospects for Ohtani right now. 

Im curious what you base that one.. similar trades in the past of lesser players have gotten that easily, why are you convinced the best player on the planet only returns fringe prospects? 

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

But the players you would get in an Ohtani trade are sure things to be All-Stars right away?

I didnt say they were, but they will likely be far advanced over a sandwich pick in the draft to contribute.

15 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok realistically what do you think they get in a trade for Ohtani?  

Im not going to speculate on  names but you could/should be able to get a couple ML ready guys.. recent call up types with a cup of coffee experience or near ready players that would contribute immediately or very soon. 
A couple of top 100 types which would almost immediately step into our top 5 or fill holes on the ML roster.
Thats what i would target anyway, and its certainly better than a sandwich pick that we wont see for years

14 hours ago, Stradling said:

Would it?  How do they improve if what you said is true that they have basically no more help coming from the farm?  How do they get better overnight while also trading Ohtani?  

Youre smarter than this.  You know very well what "other moves" means. 

46 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I like their chances with Ohtani because I have no idea what they'd get back if they traded him. What they have is pretty amazing and gives them the best chance to win, IMO.  Ohtani just demonstrated what can happen when he dominates a game.  

No one is questioning that.. but the reality is hes a pending FA.  If he was literally anyone else, would you feel the same?
We know what well get if he walks for nothing.
Its likely moot anyway Perrys comments today made it fairly clear its not happening so he better get busy getting him some help

15 minutes ago, Hubs said:

This is just virtually untrue. Let's look at the Mookie Betts trade. They got Alex Verdugo and Jeter Downs and Connor Wong.  Four years later, Downs is with the Nationals after being waived. Verdugo is in the lineup most days and hitting to a robust .844 OPS. Wong is their catcher and is doing ok. 

So one pretty good and one average to good player for the reigning 2018 AL MVP. That's actually an ok return. 

 

 

Exactly, i didnt say with all stars, and youre never going to get full value especially not this late... but you get a couple good solid ML ready kids back at the right spots its a massive help.

35 minutes ago, T.G. said:

If they trade Ohtani, don't you think that sends a message to the team that they don't believe they can contend? 

 

That would depend entirely on any other moves made.

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

I have no idea.  I think it's possible. That's enough for me.  It doesn't even matter what I think.  I believe the Angels think they can contend and their best chance is with Ohtani. That's all that matters.  Quite frankly, I like that they think they can contend.

And I expect them to add pieces by the deadline. 

As do i, one has nothing to do with the other... they could trade him and add others, they dont have to give up over it.  It isnt binary. 

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

No, if you don’t trade him you get Ohtani (basically two elite players) for the pennant drive this year (and nothing is more important than a real shot at winning a ring), and if he doesn’t resign with the Angels the Angels get compensation picks and about $500 million to spend on other players or player development.

Oh well, a sandwich pick after the first round in the draft makes i all soooo much better.   and those players will really help... in a few years. 

9 minutes ago, T.G. said:

OR...

The Angels make the postseason and have an amazing season WITH Ohtani.  He signs a long term deal after the season.  Everyone is happy...

Well, maybe not everyone...

THIS is the season to go ALL IN.  Not trade THE key piece and fold.

Be honest, how likely do you think that is... give me some odds?

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

If Ohtani walks, I will view Arte Moreno as the owner who did what he could to keep him.  Even though I'm not the biggest Arte fan, I won't hold it against him if Ohtani walks. I don't see any possible way Arte trades him before the end of the season. The team has a legitimate shot at the post-season.  Whatever happens when this season is done will be on Ohtani.  He will have all the control and has earned that right.  I just want the Angels to make it an obvious decision for him to stay.  They've already done a lot to that end.  Now, they just need to win and let Arte take care of the rest.

I see it as the exact opposite.  The time for that effort passed on opening day.
Hes literally giving away the golden ticket. 
This club has needs, he could fill a number of them them overnight instead of overpaying for them in free agency.
Lets not kid ourselves we dont have a ton more help coming from the farm the next couple years.
So he walks, we get nothing, and were even worse off back on the never ending 1 year contract carousel ... how has that worked for us so far?
 

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

On your first point, yes I think the Angels could win a bidding war. He won bidding wars for Hamilton, Pujols and Rendon, and he’s going even more motivation to win this one. Plus, I don’t think Ohtani necessarily needs every dollar he can get. If Ohtani would rather play for the Angels than Dodgers, he’ll sign with the Angels, no matter what the Dodgers offer. 
 

As for your second question, it is very possible that whoever signs Ohtani ends up regretting it. That’s true of every premium free agent. 

Well, you know more than i but from my spot that seems very optimistic.  I guess ill leave it at that