Dave Saltzer

It's a new year, time for our system to shine. Guys like Rada, Dana, Rios, Paris, and Kent to take big steps forward and guys like Adell, Joyce, Schanuel, and Bachman to grow into their skills. 
Please post all things related to the Angels Minor Leagues in here. 
And Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Years everyone. 

Not to be confused with the Official Hot Stove Thread (and at the rate this offseason is going, there will still be FA signings happening after the season begins), post all things MLB related here. 
I, for one, could care less about the Minor tinkering that they did to the pitch clock, and am still upset that they won't get rid of the stupid phantom runner. 

Not to be confused with the Official Hot Stove Thread (and at the rate this offseason is going, there will still be FA signings happening after the season begins), post all things MLB related here. 
I, for one, could care less about the Minor tinkering that they did to the pitch clock, and am still upset that they won't get rid of the stupid phantom runner. 

It's a new year, time for our system to shine. Guys like Rada, Dana, Rios, Paris, and Kent to take big steps forward and guys like Adell, Joyce, Schanuel, and Bachman to grow into their skills. 
Please post all things related to the Angels Minor Leagues in here. 
And Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Years everyone. 

Not to be confused with the Official Hot Stove Thread (and at the rate this offseason is going, there will still be FA signings happening after the season begins), post all things MLB related here. 
I, for one, could care less about the Minor tinkering that they did to the pitch clock, and am still upset that they won't get rid of the stupid phantom runner. 

It's a new year, time for our system to shine. Guys like Rada, Dana, Rios, Paris, and Kent to take big steps forward and guys like Adell, Joyce, Schanuel, and Bachman to grow into their skills. 
Please post all things related to the Angels Minor Leagues in here. 
And Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Years everyone. 

I have no idea what my health will be like then, but I am going to make every effort to go. I don't have many connections right now with Minor Leaguers because of trades and my inability to get out there as much as I used to. But, if we can get some players, Fletcher, and some others, that would be awesome. 

You are in fact, correct. He's not even halfway through his current contract, that takes him through his age 38 season. I see plenty of room to add an "extention" for a player going into his age 39 season. It wouldn't have anything to do with adding a lot more money for adding 2 years, deferring 97% and actually lowering the AAV of the contract. 
 
As for Juan Soto, his agent will argue that he is "special" too because he is so much younger than Ohtani that even though his isn't a 2-way player, that his deal is worth $550 million, especially with Ohtani level deferrals.
 
All players and teams are "special" at the high end of the market. What the Dodgers and Ohtani did with these deferrals is a gross manipulation of the system. O sire jp[e that in the next CBA that the other owners clamp down on this and even recoup what the Dodgers have deferred to Ohtani. 

You are in fact, correct. He's not even halfway through his current contract, that takes him through his age 38 season. I see plenty of room to add an "extention" for a player going into his age 39 season. It wouldn't have anything to do with adding a lot more money for adding 2 years, deferring 97% and actually lowering the AAV of the contract. 
 
As for Juan Soto, his agent will argue that he is "special" too because he is so much younger than Ohtani that even though his isn't a 2-way player, that his deal is worth $550 million, especially with Ohtani level deferrals.
 
All players and teams are "special" at the high end of the market. What the Dodgers and Ohtani did with these deferrals is a gross manipulation of the system. O sire jp[e that in the next CBA that the other owners clamp down on this and even recoup what the Dodgers have deferred to Ohtani. 

You are in fact, correct. He's not even halfway through his current contract, that takes him through his age 38 season. I see plenty of room to add an "extention" for a player going into his age 39 season. It wouldn't have anything to do with adding a lot more money for adding 2 years, deferring 97% and actually lowering the AAV of the contract. 
 
As for Juan Soto, his agent will argue that he is "special" too because he is so much younger than Ohtani that even though his isn't a 2-way player, that his deal is worth $550 million, especially with Ohtani level deferrals.
 
All players and teams are "special" at the high end of the market. What the Dodgers and Ohtani did with these deferrals is a gross manipulation of the system. O sire jp[e that in the next CBA that the other owners clamp down on this and even recoup what the Dodgers have deferred to Ohtani. 

You can't think that way. If you do, you will miss out on most trades. 
 
I could easily say that by bringing Burnes here, he falls in love with the place and signs an extension in February. It's a crapshoot that in my trade proposal would cost us Rengifo and Suarez--neither of whom will move the needle that much for us.
 
Yes, other teams *could* trade more than we can. But, they might prefer Cease or Glasnow and wouldn't have to absorb a bad contract (yes, Yelich had a good year last year, but he's still overpaid by about $17-18 million). So, if they can trade for any of them, why do the deal where they have to take on payroll. And, how many of them have the space for Yelich to play?
 
With regional broadcasting dollars in flux, many teams are being very hesitant, so I'm told, about spending this year. As much as Ohtani is holding up the market, money is also holding up the market because teams are being far more cautious (again, so I'm told by people in the biz).
 
Finally, regarding Yelich, as the AW saying goes, it's not my money. Maybe Arte received bad health news (I hope not, as I hope no one does). So, he could be motivated.
 
If I'm Minasian and could swing the deal I proposed, I would convince Arte to do it. We need more stable guys who take walks, and Yelich fits that bill. Adell and Moniak can switch off in RF, but both are freeswingers. So, limiting them to essentially 1 position, makes us a better club. 

First, thank you for taking the time to think it through and coming back with a reasoned response. I appreciate that.
Last year, Mickey Moniak put up a 2.2 WAR season (according to Baseball-Reference) for league minimum.
Take Jo Adell's numbers...he posted 0.3 WAR in 58 ABs. That's almost a 2 WAR pace like Heyward if you stretch out the ABs to the same as Heyward and Moniak.
Every year at the end of ST there are plenty of guys that a team can get out of the scrapheap that can and probably would put up 2-3 WAR (not guaranteed that they would, but have the potential, but the same is true for Heyward and Yelich) who can potentially put up 2-3 WAR for near league minimum. So. if you average out all the FAs like Heyward and all the non-tender candidates, etc. the cost for an OF who can put up those numbers on a year-by-year basis isn't really that high. 
I would certainly say that Yelich is the better bet over Heyward. But is it $19 million better? I think for around $11-12 million, we could get close to Yelich on a yearly basis. That's how I came up with my gross overpay on Yelich's contract. 
And, remember, Yelich is 31, which is when most OFers start to level out and then decrease by 34. We'd have ages 32-37, so, how do you project him aging? (I think he will hold up, which is why I'd do the deal).
How much of an overpay do you think Yelich's contract is on a yearly or total basis? And, how do you justify it?
I'm willing to take on ALL of Yelich's contract because it's only my money (and it's not my money!!!!), and we get a year of Burnes to work with him and Borass to work out an extension. Plus, it solves several of our holes for less than what we will most likely spend on Ohtani. 
Now, to be clear, I'd still go after Ohtani, and I believe Arte would go over the luxury tax to keep the unicorn because his international star power has the economic draw to jusity it. But, thre rest of my plan was to sign JD Martinez and improve the BP. All of what I'm saying can be done without breaking the luxury tax and would make us a better team. 
I don't want to argue Yelich's defense, as there are widely varying opinions on that. Let's just say it's average for LF or ignore it entirely, as he's not elite enough to justify him being a glove first defender.

First, thank you for taking the time to think it through and coming back with a reasoned response. I appreciate that.
Last year, Mickey Moniak put up a 2.2 WAR season (according to Baseball-Reference) for league minimum.
Take Jo Adell's numbers...he posted 0.3 WAR in 58 ABs. That's almost a 2 WAR pace like Heyward if you stretch out the ABs to the same as Heyward and Moniak.
Every year at the end of ST there are plenty of guys that a team can get out of the scrapheap that can and probably would put up 2-3 WAR (not guaranteed that they would, but have the potential, but the same is true for Heyward and Yelich) who can potentially put up 2-3 WAR for near league minimum. So. if you average out all the FAs like Heyward and all the non-tender candidates, etc. the cost for an OF who can put up those numbers on a year-by-year basis isn't really that high. 
I would certainly say that Yelich is the better bet over Heyward. But is it $19 million better? I think for around $11-12 million, we could get close to Yelich on a yearly basis. That's how I came up with my gross overpay on Yelich's contract. 
And, remember, Yelich is 31, which is when most OFers start to level out and then decrease by 34. We'd have ages 32-37, so, how do you project him aging? (I think he will hold up, which is why I'd do the deal).
How much of an overpay do you think Yelich's contract is on a yearly or total basis? And, how do you justify it?
I'm willing to take on ALL of Yelich's contract because it's only my money (and it's not my money!!!!), and we get a year of Burnes to work with him and Borass to work out an extension. Plus, it solves several of our holes for less than what we will most likely spend on Ohtani. 
Now, to be clear, I'd still go after Ohtani, and I believe Arte would go over the luxury tax to keep the unicorn because his international star power has the economic draw to jusity it. But, thre rest of my plan was to sign JD Martinez and improve the BP. All of what I'm saying can be done without breaking the luxury tax and would make us a better team. 
I don't want to argue Yelich's defense, as there are widely varying opinions on that. Let's just say it's average for LF or ignore it entirely, as he's not elite enough to justify him being a glove first defender.

I'm a definite maybe if my health allows.

You can't think that way. If you do, you will miss out on most trades. 
 
I could easily say that by bringing Burnes here, he falls in love with the place and signs an extension in February. It's a crapshoot that in my trade proposal would cost us Rengifo and Suarez--neither of whom will move the needle that much for us.
 
Yes, other teams *could* trade more than we can. But, they might prefer Cease or Glasnow and wouldn't have to absorb a bad contract (yes, Yelich had a good year last year, but he's still overpaid by about $17-18 million). So, if they can trade for any of them, why do the deal where they have to take on payroll. And, how many of them have the space for Yelich to play?
 
With regional broadcasting dollars in flux, many teams are being very hesitant, so I'm told, about spending this year. As much as Ohtani is holding up the market, money is also holding up the market because teams are being far more cautious (again, so I'm told by people in the biz).
 
Finally, regarding Yelich, as the AW saying goes, it's not my money. Maybe Arte received bad health news (I hope not, as I hope no one does). So, he could be motivated.
 
If I'm Minasian and could swing the deal I proposed, I would convince Arte to do it. We need more stable guys who take walks, and Yelich fits that bill. Adell and Moniak can switch off in RF, but both are freeswingers. So, limiting them to essentially 1 position, makes us a better club. 

I really don't think it would cost all that much for Burnes if we took on all of Yelich's contract. Luckily, Angels fans are used to overpays, especially in the OF. I've run it through the trade simulators, and trading them Rengifo alone according to the evaluator is more than fair value back to them. They really are in some payroll crunch time, need to move an OFer, appear ready to be signing their top prospect (a CFer), and need middle infield help with offensive upside. Sounds to me like Rengifo and Suarez should be more than fair for a pitcher that they will lose in a year, major financial relief, and filling their MIF need makes us line up well for them.
 
As you and I have discussed, this would be my offseason plan. Trade for Burnes and Yelich. Sign Ohtani if possible to DH and if not, signing JD Martinez. And build up our bullpen. 
 
Our team needs more players who draw walks throughout the lineup, so we can have more balanced production. We had way too many free swingers last year in our lineup.
 
As for my offer to Ohtani, it would be as such:
$45 miliion a year guaranteed per year for 10 years making him the highest paid player in the game, just as a hitter. 
Add in $1 million for every 10 innings, rounded up (so at 10.1 innings he gets $2 million). If he pitches 150 innings, he's at an insane amount of $60 million for that year. Bonuses for All Star Appearances, awards, etc. 
Opt outs for him after years 2, 4, and 6. The Angels get 1 opt out after year 5. 

You can't think that way. If you do, you will miss out on most trades. 
 
I could easily say that by bringing Burnes here, he falls in love with the place and signs an extension in February. It's a crapshoot that in my trade proposal would cost us Rengifo and Suarez--neither of whom will move the needle that much for us.
 
Yes, other teams *could* trade more than we can. But, they might prefer Cease or Glasnow and wouldn't have to absorb a bad contract (yes, Yelich had a good year last year, but he's still overpaid by about $17-18 million). So, if they can trade for any of them, why do the deal where they have to take on payroll. And, how many of them have the space for Yelich to play?
 
With regional broadcasting dollars in flux, many teams are being very hesitant, so I'm told, about spending this year. As much as Ohtani is holding up the market, money is also holding up the market because teams are being far more cautious (again, so I'm told by people in the biz).
 
Finally, regarding Yelich, as the AW saying goes, it's not my money. Maybe Arte received bad health news (I hope not, as I hope no one does). So, he could be motivated.
 
If I'm Minasian and could swing the deal I proposed, I would convince Arte to do it. We need more stable guys who take walks, and Yelich fits that bill. Adell and Moniak can switch off in RF, but both are freeswingers. So, limiting them to essentially 1 position, makes us a better club. 

I really don't think it would cost all that much for Burnes if we took on all of Yelich's contract. Luckily, Angels fans are used to overpays, especially in the OF. I've run it through the trade simulators, and trading them Rengifo alone according to the evaluator is more than fair value back to them. They really are in some payroll crunch time, need to move an OFer, appear ready to be signing their top prospect (a CFer), and need middle infield help with offensive upside. Sounds to me like Rengifo and Suarez should be more than fair for a pitcher that they will lose in a year, major financial relief, and filling their MIF need makes us line up well for them.
 
As you and I have discussed, this would be my offseason plan. Trade for Burnes and Yelich. Sign Ohtani if possible to DH and if not, signing JD Martinez. And build up our bullpen. 
 
Our team needs more players who draw walks throughout the lineup, so we can have more balanced production. We had way too many free swingers last year in our lineup.
 
As for my offer to Ohtani, it would be as such:
$45 miliion a year guaranteed per year for 10 years making him the highest paid player in the game, just as a hitter. 
Add in $1 million for every 10 innings, rounded up (so at 10.1 innings he gets $2 million). If he pitches 150 innings, he's at an insane amount of $60 million for that year. Bonuses for All Star Appearances, awards, etc. 
Opt outs for him after years 2, 4, and 6. The Angels get 1 opt out after year 5. 

I really don't think it would cost all that much for Burnes if we took on all of Yelich's contract. Luckily, Angels fans are used to overpays, especially in the OF. I've run it through the trade simulators, and trading them Rengifo alone according to the evaluator is more than fair value back to them. They really are in some payroll crunch time, need to move an OFer, appear ready to be signing their top prospect (a CFer), and need middle infield help with offensive upside. Sounds to me like Rengifo and Suarez should be more than fair for a pitcher that they will lose in a year, major financial relief, and filling their MIF need makes us line up well for them.
 
As you and I have discussed, this would be my offseason plan. Trade for Burnes and Yelich. Sign Ohtani if possible to DH and if not, signing JD Martinez. And build up our bullpen. 
 
Our team needs more players who draw walks throughout the lineup, so we can have more balanced production. We had way too many free swingers last year in our lineup.
 
As for my offer to Ohtani, it would be as such:
$45 miliion a year guaranteed per year for 10 years making him the highest paid player in the game, just as a hitter. 
Add in $1 million for every 10 innings, rounded up (so at 10.1 innings he gets $2 million). If he pitches 150 innings, he's at an insane amount of $60 million for that year. Bonuses for All Star Appearances, awards, etc. 
Opt outs for him after years 2, 4, and 6. The Angels get 1 opt out after year 5. 

I really don't think it would cost all that much for Burnes if we took on all of Yelich's contract. Luckily, Angels fans are used to overpays, especially in the OF. I've run it through the trade simulators, and trading them Rengifo alone according to the evaluator is more than fair value back to them. They really are in some payroll crunch time, need to move an OFer, appear ready to be signing their top prospect (a CFer), and need middle infield help with offensive upside. Sounds to me like Rengifo and Suarez should be more than fair for a pitcher that they will lose in a year, major financial relief, and filling their MIF need makes us line up well for them.
 
As you and I have discussed, this would be my offseason plan. Trade for Burnes and Yelich. Sign Ohtani if possible to DH and if not, signing JD Martinez. And build up our bullpen. 
 
Our team needs more players who draw walks throughout the lineup, so we can have more balanced production. We had way too many free swingers last year in our lineup.
 
As for my offer to Ohtani, it would be as such:
$45 miliion a year guaranteed per year for 10 years making him the highest paid player in the game, just as a hitter. 
Add in $1 million for every 10 innings, rounded up (so at 10.1 innings he gets $2 million). If he pitches 150 innings, he's at an insane amount of $60 million for that year. Bonuses for All Star Appearances, awards, etc. 
Opt outs for him after years 2, 4, and 6. The Angels get 1 opt out after year 5. 

I have no idea what my health will be like then, but I am going to make every effort to go. I don't have many connections right now with Minor Leaguers because of trades and my inability to get out there as much as I used to. But, if we can get some players, Fletcher, and some others, that would be awesome. 

I have no idea what my health will be like then, but I am going to make every effort to go. I don't have many connections right now with Minor Leaguers because of trades and my inability to get out there as much as I used to. But, if we can get some players, Fletcher, and some others, that would be awesome. 

I have no idea what my health will be like then, but I am going to make every effort to go. I don't have many connections right now with Minor Leaguers because of trades and my inability to get out there as much as I used to. But, if we can get some players, Fletcher, and some others, that would be awesome. 

I have no idea what my health will be like then, but I am going to make every effort to go. I don't have many connections right now with Minor Leaguers because of trades and my inability to get out there as much as I used to. But, if we can get some players, Fletcher, and some others, that would be awesome. 

I miss our old Fanfests. Those were great times.