ThisismineScios

10 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

You mean the season that arte pulled the team off the market, decided to push the budget higher than it ever has and the GM said, if this is how much money I get then I need to spend it this way in order to put a roster together.
 

arte sets the tone for all things angels…you also seem to ignore the fact that there are still 170+ FA available, including a CY young. They also have to sign the offers. For all we know, Perry has been given a budget, allocated for the players he wants based on that budget and is sending out ancillary offers to fill minor league depth.
 

so while you’re hellbent on blaming Perry, you ignore everything that doesn’t fit your narrative. 

You're still not following -- which is fine -- so I'll just ask 2 simple questions: 

Do you think that right now, at this moment, Perry could sign a player for $3 - 10 million AAV if he wanted to? For example, could Perry spend $5 on Adam Duvall? 

Do you think Arte wants to dig into every single deal, analyzing the cost/profit margin, the impact, etc., or do you think Perry has a budget to work with and has some freedom to do what he wants? 

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok if you were a GM would you want more or less money to spend?

2 hours ago, mmc said:

So you think he wants to enter the season with a mediocre roster?  

I think you guys are misunderstanding my point. Based on some of the details I shared, I think Perry has the autonomy to make smaller moves. Trades even, like he did with the Braves (which only saved us a little). Garcia, Plesac, Cimber, things in that range or slightly above. Even the Int'l signings. And if he doesn't have the green light for bigger deals, Arte's dumb but whatever. It's pretty clear he's not limited to nothing at all. My comment is that he's done nothing with what he was allowed to. I doubt Kolarek, Cimber, or Plesac are on the opening day roster. But most importantly, he stated over and over again they were going to be aggressive, make moves, improve, and build a winning club. Arte is an idiot in his own right, but Perry overpromised and has underdelivered. I really would be fine if he said that the plan was to sign mid-level guys, or vets to mentor the young guys. But he acted like they were going to jump right in and build a winner -- Wash said the same -- and sitting out any guy that's gone so far doesn't line up with that. So while I agree a big part of this is on Arte, and I would be positively jovial is he sold the team, Perry hasn't done anything so far to truly improve this team's chances of winning. I hate Arte but I don't see how we can blame him for everything. 

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

How do we know Arte told Perry he can’t spend money?  Common sense.  That’s how we know. 

Lol

5 minutes ago, 3pitchwalk said:

im neutral on perry but these two points are kinda bad.

1. if arte isnt spending then what can perry possibly do? how can you sign anybody if youre not allowed to sign anybody?

2. plenty of people work for shitty bosses all the time. this is one of the staples of society. also i dont think he's viewed as any of those, tho. right or wrong, losing ohtani and trout being "wasted" are all laid at arte's feet. if anything, working for artes given any gm under him a get out of jail free card.

How do we know Arte told Perry he can’t spend at all? Perry has made small signings. In fact the small guaranteed $1 million deals are guys that may spend the year in AAA. Which means they need to be replaced by other guys getting paid at a ML rate. It could be wasted money. And most attractive teams build depth this way with minor league deals. Perry has permission to build, at least some depth with guaranteed deals. That’s more expensive. And it tells me that the checkbook isn’t locked shut, and that there is a certain level of autonomy with smaller deals. This is what I believe. And if you are going to tell me, there is a complete spending freeze on any level, my response is that at least I have a small amount of evidence.

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

I am mystified that they haven’t at least signed some one year deals with decent enough players in the meantime, since the Bally’s issue doesn’t impact 2024.

They are still some $65-70 million under the 2024 tax threshold.

This is what I mean about Arte. I really don’t believe Arte told Perry he can’t spend on $4-8 million guys. And that seems to be more what we’re going to do. And I strongly agree with @totdprods that if they said they wanted to surround the young guys with vets to mentor them, we’d be fine with it. But Perry’s talking like he’s going to build a great team to win the WS. Sending completely mixed signals accomplishes nothing. 

I don't feel bad for Perry in any way, not that anyone asked. 

I am not "mad" they haven't signed an expensive or big name guy. I'll be fine if they do, probably not too upset if they don't.

But when you talk the way he's talked (more on that in a minute), hire Ron Washington+Porter+EYS, lose Ohtani (more on that), brag about it, then Ron talks the way he's talked about running down the West, returning to greatness, and winning...you had better show everyone that you mean it. And I think blaming the market or Arte for a lack of progress is pretty ignorant. It doesn't seem like he has a plan. 

Perry has said the following quotes about the offseason:

"There's lots of players that would love to play for [Wash]. We've heard that echoed all offseason."
"There's still a ton of players out there; guys that can help this team, make this team better and we will explore."
"We want guys that want to play. We have some guys that are motivated. We want to add to that, bring some edge to the group." 
"(Pitching) is definitely a priority, whether it's the rotation or the bullpen. We can use help in both areas." 
Garcia and Cimber improved the "depth overall of the bullpen."
“This is a group that wants to win ... It's still early in the sense of a market standpoint and what's available. So we'll continue to have discussions, whether it be free agents or whether it be through trade, and we'll see where the offseason takes us.”
(On the White/Thomas deal:) "The deal gave us some financial flexibility, which will allow us to pursue some other players. 
"You can never have enough (starters), right?" 
“We're looking to improve, and we’re looking at all areas...I know everybody rolls their eyes. But you guys watched this. We can improve everywhere. I don't think anybody's gonna argue with me on that. We can improve in the bullpen, in the rotation, the lineup, from a run-prevention standpoint and defensively.”

He said this on the possibility of losing Ohtani: 

“We've spent a lot of time up to this point, going through 1,000 different scenarios.” Minasian said. “So 'difficult' would be the wrong word. I think we have to be able to make adjustments. We have to have a Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, Plan D and be able to think on our feet. We have to explore the trade market, maybe more than we have in the past. There are some interesting names on the trade front that we’ve had discussions about.”

So they've gone through 1,000 scenarios, had Plans A - D, thought on their feet, explored the trade market (more than the past, which was already a fair amount)...and produced this? It's not so much that there are a lot of free agents left, but they weren't even in on Imanaga, Teoscar, Stroman, Sonny Gray, E Rodriguez, Y Rodriguez, Hicks, Flaherty or Bader. Essentially, I don't believe there's any reports that they made a serious push for any of these guys.

A GM that talks like this surely would be active on the FA and trade fronts, right? I don't think it matters if he went in saying it's a transition year, they're retooling, reshuffling, and stacking the deck for 2025 or something. Perry put all his eggs in winning and improving right now. And he's done not a single significant thing this offseason. Not a single move that really adds wins to this team. If Arte is letting him spend $4 million on Garcia and $1 million on essentially AAA depth, I don't for a second believe he is "not allowed" to make smaller, mid-level signings. Or trades--why would Arte tell him he can't make a trade? The Diamond money was always going to be guaranteed (by all accounts), so can we stop saying Arte froze Perry's credit card until he knew? At this point, I just am kind of tired of Perry promising to compete, do everything he can to improve, wanting to win, guys wanting to play for Wash, ownership always spending, and having plan after plan after plan, then doing nothing at all. 

Finally, the reason I don't feel bad for him is that in addition to promising the world and delivering a gas station sandwich collection of pitchers so far, HE is choosing to work for Arte. If Arte is really as controlling as some think, refusing to allow Perry to make a single move or transaction, why would you ever want to work for someone like that? I get there are only 30 GM jobs and the prestige, but it makes Perry seem like an extremely incompetent GM. You're fine being seen as a joke and the guy that lost Ohtani, wasted Trout, and couldn't surround him with talent so you could be a figurehead GM? That's not worth it to me. Go be an AGM somewhere and prepare for the next job. 

Look at the list from 2017. These guys would be in the age 22-24 range right now. I follow baseball pretty well and I've highlighted the players I've even heard of. I'm sure others on AW know about more of these guys, but the point is very few of these guys are setting the world on fire...6-7 years later. 

1. Wander Samuel Franco, SS, Dominican Republic - Rays ($3,825,000) More »
2. Daniel Flores, C, Venezuela - Red Sox ($3,100,000) More »
3. Jelfry Marte, SS, Dominican Republic - Twins ($3,000,000) More »
4. Everson Pereira, OF, Venezuela - Yankees ($1,500,000) More »
5. Eric Pardinho, RHP, Brazil - Blue Jays ($1,400,000) More »
6. Raimfer Salinas, OF, Venezuela
7. Luis Garcia, SS, Dominican Republic - Phillies ($2,500,000) More »
8. Antonio Cabello, C, Venezuela
9. Julio Rodriguez, OF, Dominican Republic - Mariners ($1,750,000) More »
10. Ronny Mauricio, SS, Dominican Republic - Mets ($2,100,000) More »
11. Ronny Rojas, SS, Dominican Republic
12. Ynmanol Marinez, SS, Dominican Republic - Marlins ($1,500,000) More »
13. Danny Diaz, SS, Venezuela - Red Sox ($1,600,000) More »
14. Larry Ernesto, OF, Dominican Republic - Brewers ($1,800,000) More »
15. Kristian Robinson, OF, Bahamas - D-backs ($2,550,000) More »
16. Roberto Chirinos, SS, Venezuela - Yankees ($900,000) More »
17. Miguel Hiraldo, SS, Dominican Republic - Blue Jays ($750,000) More »
18. Adrian Hernandez, SS, Dominican Republic - Mets ($1,500,000) More »
19. Keyber Rodriguez, SS, Venezuela - Rangers ($1,000,000) More »
20. Antoni Flores, SS, Venezuela - Red Sox ($1,400,000) More »
21. George Valera, OF, Dominican Republic - Indians ($1,300,000) More »
22. Aaron Bracho, SS, Venezuela - Indians ($1,500,000) More »
23. Alvaro Gonzalez, SS, Venezuela - Tigers ($1,000,000) More »
24. Osleivis Basabe, SS, Venezuela
25. Wildred Patino, OF, Venezuela
26. Juan Querecuto, SS, Venezuela - Mariners ($1,225,000) More »
27. Damian Mendoza, RHP, Mexico - Rangers ($1,000,000) More »
28. Carlos Rodriguez, OF, Venezuela - Brewers ($1,355,000) More »
29. Stir Candelario, OF, Dominican Republic
30. Luis Verdugo, SS, Mexico - Cubs ($1,000,000) 

38 minutes ago, BTH said:

I find it interesting that Perry would pitch Arte on Bauer, despite Perry’s knack for caring about a player’s makeup.

So is Perry desperate because he’s in the last year of his deal or is the public perception on Bauer wrong and he doesn’t have bad makeup?

Perry always talks about makeup, then he signs guys like Strickland, Tepera, and Plesac that make me question whether he does. I wouldn’t care if he didn’t constantly say things about a players makeup, but he does.

It's also true that you might be more concerned with makeup under Live Free or Die Joe Maddon or Phil Nevin than Ron Washington. Nevin seemed to talk really big but almost never back it up. He let the Rendon thing get out of control. Let all of August happen. I'm much less concerned with how tough a manager talks and looks than with the shenanigans that are happening all around him. 

My biggest complaint about Trout for years has been the lack of forward leadership and being vocal. Every manager he's had, maybe Sosh aside, hasn't asked much of him. He's incredible at leading by example, but the team just needs more. The first thing Wash said was he needs Mike to be a leader and Rendon needs to step up also. In Angels World, challenging Mike Trout used to be sacrosanct. Rendon was left to his own devices. Washington set the tone in his first presser. I think Perry may feel better about guys like Plesac, Clevinger, or Bauer because of the group of veterans they have coaching now as opposed to the odd combo of guys we've had the last 3 years. 

28 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I would have expected the Angels to supplement the team in terms of depth by now if they weren't considering any big money signings.  Which makes me think that they still are.  They need a halfway decent versatile IF.  They need a halfway decent versatile OFer.  They need at least one rotation depth piece.  They need at least one stable bullpen arm (within reason).  

Ideally, those would come on short term deals that could be moved easily for other parts but that pool is dwindling.  

Really hard to tell what they intend to do.  

Yeah, I don't think it's just a matter of not wanting to spend any money. I think they spent their max yesterday (I know those deals were in the works for months or years), which almost every team does I know. But still, they haven't always spent big and seem to be in the mix now. 

It also makes no sense for Arte, who refuses to rebuild and is competitive, to not allow Perry to spend on small signings in the $4-8 million range. It's much more likely that he wants to know about the TV deal and is unsure of which direction to go. It doesn't necessarily kill the Angels revenue (it's legalese way beyond my understanding), and most likely whatever comes next is going to be better than what we have now. MLB is most likely going to retain the rights from Diamond and then come up with a better system or platform. But not knowing may make things uncertain. And I think the fact that so many free agents are still out there means quite a few teams are waiting on what's going to happen. 

The fact that they are still active -- at least according to the unreliable reporters -- seems to indicate that maybe a lot of FAs are actually the ones waiting to say yes to get every possible team to the table. 

6 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

I wonder if that is impacting Bellinger and Snell to wait. 

Yes but moreso it's causing Boras to wait. He knows there's a few teams that may spend if they can get something sorted out. I found this article very interesting . 

https://www.si.com/mlb/angels/news/amazon-wont-stream-angels-games-in-2024-report

If Diamond is forced to liquidate, the broadcast rights could go to the highest bidder. And Baseball streaming is a gold mine because games are on every day and you have a very loyal following--not outlandish numbers, but consistent. The Angels market share was under 1% the last two years but covers all of LA. I am hoping MLB has no choice but to create their own viable way of streaming games. Either way, good news would mean the Angels would have a clearer picture of their TV money. Of course, it shouldn't matter because Arte is a billionaire but he is a penny pincher and cares. 

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

Fourth, in regards to Bellinger, the statcast data (we are in the statcast age, after all) doesn't paint a pretty picture. He'll get paid the MVP that he was but he isn't that guy. Fifth, Bellinger is a good defensive outfielder but for the money you're paying him, it's mostly the bat, so a move to 1B it's coming sooner rather than later, and the Angels already have a heck of a 1B prospect in Schanuel.

I don't think it's that simple with Bellinger. I don't think he had a "lucky" or "flukey" year. His Sweet Spot %, K Rate, and Whiff % were not just good -- they were elite. His launch angle went back down to 2019-2020 numbers, as did his K%. However, his barrels and Hard hit numbers didn't go back. So he figured something out that he was missing in '21-22, but not everything. And his defense is absolutely elite. If you can get an elite CF that will become an elite corner guy, that can hit well above average, that's worth it. He also runs very well. I would be fine paying him a high number. 

Plus its reuniting him with J Washington. 

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The lack of anything substantial being done by the Angels so far sucks.  The lack of moves solely to try to make the fanbase THINK they are trying does not.  Given recent history, avoiding big money mistakes would be a refreshing change.

This is like devil on one shoulder, angel on the other. Been just thinking on some things. Don't mind me I'm just here. Forgive the long post but it's a bit therapeutic for dealing with the lethargic team I follow. 

1) This kind of marks the first offseason in...as long as I can remember that we don't know where we stand. Are we saving $? Re-tooling? Rebuilding? (Unlikely). Going for it? Most teams' fans know what the objective is in the offseason. And while I don't think Perry needs to tell the world all his plans, or exactly how much money they're going to spend (which is what Blum is going on about), I think some sort of goal would generate more excitement and fan support. And while it's easy to say that nobody in the org cares about that...of course they do. No team flat out doesn't care about their fans. But the Angels are mentioned in nearly every rumor. The ones I've seen so far: Snell, Montgomery, Teoscar, Bellinger, Imanaga, Hicks, Brasier, Stephenson, JDM, Soler, Stroman. They've shown real interest in all these guys? Really? They've even allowed themselves to be reported as seriously in or in the lead on Snell, Imanaga, Stroman, Soler, and Teoscar. They likely won't come close to signing any of these guys. I'm not sure what this accomplishes? You get your fan base to get somewhat excited or hopeful, and it turns out you were never close to getting any of them -- maybe it was, "Hey (agent), if your guy is open to 2 years - $30 million, let us know." (Signs for close to double that). But how does that benefit them? Either they're oblivious to their name being thrown around constantly, as a joke/tool among agents and as a false hope for fans (which is bad), or...they don't care? Which I think is also bad. I don't see an in-between, because they don't leak anything (intentionally or not) and Perry uses the same "Management 101" lines every time he talks to reporters. I guess I just don't get the way they go about negotiations, rumors, leverage, and keeping everything from your fans and even your own players! The players are on Twitter and watch MLBN as well! I'm can see Trout texting Perry after seeing these rumors like, "Hey, we thinking about Snell?" "No, lol, just a rumor." "Oh ok. Montgomery?" "No, just showed some interest." "Ahh. Bellinger?" "Too expensive". "Oh...ok. Who are we talking to." "Remember Plesac? Yeah..him and Adam Duvall." The players always talk about learning about things on Twitter. What's it like for them to think the team is in on guys constantly, only to find out they're not? 

2) Arte. I know, we tend to talk about him in extremes. However, I am truly at a loss for where his head is at and what he wants. He is a 77 (!!) year-old billionaire that owns a baseball team. Which just has to be a hobby at his age and wealth. Owning a team cannot be all about making money. I cannot relate, but I also cannot understand how that does not cause you to behave in a certain way. For example:
-He did not exceed the luxury tax once ever, not even in 2022 when we thought we would have a healthy Ohtani (fresh off MVP), Trout, and Rendon. So clearly winning only matters so much to him--not enough to not make money...even though valuation means he can recoup, quite literally, all of that lost money 10x over when he does sell the team. What I mean is if he spends a lot, and the team loses $20 million dollars...uhh ok? When you sell, you are going to profit $2 billion+. 
-His family has no interest in continuing ownership. Which means you are going to make several billion $ to pass on to them when you sell (or die) no matter what. Sustaining a profitable enterprise first and foremost should not matter for a man in his position. 
-He will not talk to the media openly. He has barely done so in years. Which means he does not want to answer for certain decisions, and does not want to deal with negativity or criticism. 
-He knows the fans don't like him. He did not go on the field for Ohtani's Team MVP award, but fans still chanted "Sell the Team" and "Arte Sucks" during the game. 
-His legacy at this point is going to say, "He never won a Championship, missed the playoffs for 9 straight years, wasted the years of perhaps the 2 greatest players in history, and was known for meddling." I can't think of another way he is remembered if he died today. 

So all of this considered...he is old, extremely rich, loves baseball, is not passing the team on to family, knows the fans don't like him, knows the media will hound him if he talks to them, but has never won a championship and has a truly awful ownership legacy.
The thing that I cannot wrap my head around: there is a single solution to all of these things: spend aggressively. Invest in your team, go over the tax, spend spend spend. Fans would get excited, the media for the most part sits where the fans do, the team would be more competitive, you go out looking like a guy who actually wants to win, and save that legacy in some way. What I'm saying essentially is that even though I know he is the way he is, I don't understand why when if he just went all-in, he could remedy all of these things.

I know the responses are going to be "WHO CARES and "YOURE WASTING YOUR TIME" or that all he care about is money, but when you factor everything, what he is doing and the place in life he is at does not make any sense to me. 

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You have to think a lot of teams viewed him as a 4th or 5th starter. 

That won’t stop us all from freaking out about not paying an extreme fly ball pitcher $15 million a year. 

17 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Fine, but I'd still prefer Adell and Moniak to get the vast majority of ABs, rather than a 35+-year-old guy who won't play any role in the future of the Angels.

EDIT: Also, he hasn't played 1B since 2018 and not with any regularity since 2014.

I don’t think we always realize just how many guys are unsigned. I know I don’t. 

Without checking, Bellinger, JDM, Soler, Turner, Duvall, Taylor, Hoskins, Mous, Snell, Montgomery, Hader, Stroman, Imanaga, Stephenson, Brasier, Ryu, Paxton

There’s a ton more. Nobody has really done anything yet besides the Dodgers. So I don’t think we have any idea what the Angels are trying to do. 

2 hours ago, Taylor said:

Ward and Rengifo's values have already peaked.

I think I disagree here, and not because Rosenthal said so. Respectfully. 

Teoscar Hernandez just fetched 23 mil. To the "best team" in baseball. He played in 160 games last year, had a wRC of 105 and 1.8 WAR. He struck out 31% of the time, had an OBP of .305, and played poor defense in OF. He's 31. 

Taylor Ward just turned 30, and in 97 games last year had a wRC+ of 107, 1.5 WAR, K% of 19.6, .335 OBP, and played above average defense in the OF. Ward probably gets close to the same HR numbers if healthy. Oh...and he has 3 years of control. 

Rengifo has 2 years of control, had 1.9 WAR in 126 games, wRC+ of 114, plays SS, 2B, 3B, and OF, has speed, and had only an 18.4 K%. 

These guys have real value. They are better overall players than Teoscar, who was the prize OF of the offseason. I think the Angels could find quality Starting Pitching if they traded them. 

11 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Maybe. But I feel like they're going to make a big signing within the next few days. 

Not sure what the AW "source" is but we never really know what the plans are until the offseason is over so who knows.

Same source that said a bird said we were getting RR. And that Ron Washington was very unlikely to come to Anaheim. 

Not saying it’s not true. Just saying. I’m sayin. 

If the Angels are always only used for leverage…doesn’t it behoove them to leak a little that they’re not in on a guy? There is zero upside to letting your fans and the public think you are one of the finalists for a guy when you are not. It makes fans mad and agents realize you aren’t serious about their guys, eventually, and stop talking to you. Being a leverage component for agents does not benefit them in any way. They hear the same rumors we do. It’s an MLB push notification for crying out loud. Why on earth would they see that and say, “Oh Snell? Imanaga? Montgomery? We’re not close to signing them. But we will let everyone think we are.” Doesn’t seem like it accomplishes anything. 

I like the idea of Duvall. Numbers are pretty evenly split vs Righties and Lefties in his career. Could platoon him with Moniak or possibly slot him in Left and trade Ward? I mean most of the rumors we're getting are on OFs, so they'd have to move a guy right? 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It's a low risk chance to get some decent production. He has options.

Also I'd love if he reinvented himself as a bullpen guy a la Moore or the numerous other failed starters that became good relievers. Just a thought. 

I think there's actually some potential for them to have a really solid lineup and rotation. Incredible? No. But if they grab 2 of Snell, Montgomery, Stroman, Clevenger, Montas, or Imanaga, or one of those guys and trade for a SP, then get 2 more above average bats, I'd feel good about the rotation and lineup. Two FA pitchers and 2 FA hitters shouldn't cost more than $70 million. Roster would be something like

Schanuel
Trout
Teoscar
JD/Turner
O'Hoppe
Rendon
Drury (or Anderson/Rengifo if you trade him)
Ward/Moniak/Adell (whoever they keep)
Neto

Would make me actually feel good. 

Rotation of 

Snell/Montgomery/Stroman
Detmers
FA/Trade 
Sandoval (or trade him)
Canning/Silseth/Anderson

With Bachman, Rosenberg, Suarez, and DDaniel as depth. 

The bullpen is the real issue. You have no idea what will happen and it's so volatile. I have absolutely no idea what they're doing. They have Estevez, Joyce, Soriano, Cimber, Garcia, Kolarek, Caceres, Quijada, Wantz, Warren, Herget, Mederos...no clue. 

No matter what they do, they can't come out of this with a 2022-like offseason and say, "Look at how we raised the floor!" They need some major moves. If we end up with Wacha, Teoscar, Soler, and Moore, it's a massive failure. 

I think Ward, Rengifo, Sandoval, Estevez, Adell, and Drury are all trade candidates. 

You can't under any circumstances trade Neto, O'Hoppe, or Schanuel. Those guys are way more valuable to you than anyone else. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Arte try something outside the box. Hiring a POBO helps because Minasian is no longer a lame duck--the POBO would likely have input on the managerial hire. 

Only great managers truly make a difference. I would be fine with Hunter or Erstad. They'd at least have the players respect. I am more interested in who is leading the pitching staff. I think that is the most impactful coaching position because it involves sequencing, location strategy, and mentality. Hitting coaches and managers are vastly overrated--offensive doesn't require as much strategy as pitching. Strom and Haren have taken the DBacks staff and really elevated them. Although I will say a great hitting coach like Ecker or Cintron can really raise the floor. 

In order of hires this offseason, I care most about

POBO
Pitching Coach
Manager
Hitting Coach
3B Coach

33 minutes ago, BTH said:

Buck doesn’t have an emotional attachment to the Angels, like most fans do.

Or like Phil did? His going away letter made me tear up

28 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Is it a minor point? What top FA would want to come here. New manager every other year, new GM after next year. 8 straight losing season all new coaches coming in again. New AGM coming in. One of the most dysfunctional teams in all of sports. What direction for this team next year does anyone in front office know? Ohtani is lucky he will be out of this mess. Trout will wait and see.

No offense but not every player really cares about that stuff. They will sign Free Agents. Arte has had a bad rep and a been a mess for 5-7 years. They've signed plenty of guys. Including................Shohei Ohtani. Guys consider many things when signing, not always the ownership situation, the autonomy of the GM, etc. Good money, perfect weather, decent team? Sure why not. 

I'll tell you this--hiring Buck would provide more superficial value to a prospective FA than signing a first time bench coach. 

I actually like Phil. I really do. I will always be on Team Bench Coach for him--I think he can be a part of a great team. However, there is absolutely no way to look at Aug 1 - Sept 20 (12 - 32) and not attribute any of that to the manager. I get that the players sucked. But if you believe that baseball managers have ANY effect whatsoever, you believe that a good manager doesn't let his team having a .272 winning % over the most crucial 7 weeks of the season. If you put that entirely on the players, you're saying managers have no effect. 

I think when it counted most, he couldn't get the best out of his guys. They caved. And we can't blame injuries. Our pitching staff fell apart. They allowed 6 runs or more 15 times in August! That's insane! As a manager, you have to find a solution. 

At this point, you have to stop expecting guys like Counsell or Melvin to want to come here. We're going to be successful either with a Sosh (first time manager and well respected) or an older guy. There isn't any in between. But I'd take a guy with a track record, even a spotty one. That's also why Buck probably wants the job--he knows not many teams would hire an also-ran. It's more about the staff around him, and the player development program.