tchula

I originally thought this list was fan made, but upon reading it I found it quite insightful.  I imagine it could spark some interesting discussion while we wait for Cole to either break our hearts and make this a great holiday. 
https://www.fantraxhq.com/top-25-los-angeles-angels-prospects-2020/
My apologies if this has already been posted. 

First, thank you everyone for these rankings.  You all did a spectacular job.  And I read minor league thread daily (well, at least when there are new posts).  And, of course, I have my internal rankings.  Now, I do not study these guys as much as you, but I have kept up with them.  There will be some guys I follow closely this year, and quite frankly, this will be a make or break year for about ten prospects.  I do agree with some, although Sandoval is technically eligible, I have a hard time viewing him as a prospect.  I am hoping Callaway can do wonders with him, because when he got to the majors his fastball was much better than advertised.  I believe the CRod rankings are a bit high with his injury, but I have to remind myself that Frankie Rodriguez could barely pitch in the minors (if memory serves) because one injury after another.  And then after stringing a few months of healthy appearance made the 40 man roster in September, and of course the rest is history.  But I also think of guys like Alex Meyer (granted I know he's a different body type etc.).  My only question is why didn't they opt to do surgery two years ago when his back issues started manifesting.  It almost seems like they lost an entire year of development.  It was like when Richards spent a year trying to rehab his way through his elbow issues rather than just getting TJ surgery.  He just simply delayed the inevitable.  On another note, I also believe Ortega will be claimed in the Rule 5 draft by someone.  He has the makings of a solid reliever. 

Stradling is dead on.  Beane would have sold Trout to the highest bidder and gotten massive prospects for him.  I can't speak for the Rays, but Beane has developed a model that works for small market teams.  Build up the farm and trade everyone away at peak value ... be awful for two-four years ... rinse and repeat.  If we operated like that people would be frustrated for an entirely different reason.  

I completely agree ... comparing the two would be like comparing Ryan Leaf to Alex Smith.  At the end of the day, Pujols has never been the reason why were have been as bad as we are.  Under the Angels, Pujols has performed like what he really is ... one of the all time greats on the back-nine of his career.  Also, Pujols is one of the most classiest players in baseball and has represented the Angels organization like a true ambassador.  I know that doesn't necessarily amount to wins and losses, but if I had to guess, one of the reasons Trout is such a great player and good guy, is because he's had someone like Pujols to mentor him. 

Not to make this thread pivot fully to a Hamilton or Pujols thread. . .
But in the context of bad contracts, those tow don’t even come close to comparing in my opinion.
Pujols underperformed overall but he was never a cancer.  The team overpaid for his production.  The cost was some money.
Hamilton underperformed and then literally didn’t perform and was a distraction and disruption.  The cost was more than money.  It was money.  It was performance.  It was culture.  It was clubhouse.  It was brand damage.  It was humiliation to the owner.
The two really don’t belong in the same sentence.

@Vlad27Trout27, good stuff but I still think you're underestimating the market for Cole. It may not even be quantity of teams - if just one or two other teams want him, they probably really want him, and I imagine the Angels really, really want him, because they really, really, really need him.
Couple that with the fact that he's about as prime a free agent starter as we've seen in years - maybe the best since Max Scherzer five years ago. He's a top tier talent who has finally actualized his prodigious potential; he's in the prime of his career, and there's no reason to think he can't remain an elite pitcher for a few more years, and still be at least good for the second half of his contract. I see him as closer to Verlander/Scherzer in terms of aging, than Sale/Kershaw (who are both still very good, just not prime anymore in their early 30s).
My worry is that someone like the Dodgers or Yankees recognize this (which they do), and throw out something crazy like 8/$256M. I do think there are at least even or better odds that he gets the richest free agent contract ever for a pitcher, surpassing David Price's 7/$217M or maybe even Kershaw's 8/$238M if you count his extension. At the very least I'm confident that he'll join the $200M club, which is comprised of the  following pitchers (I've also thrown in Justin Verlander, as his inflated contract is over $200M, and Stephen Strasburg as a premier free agent pitcher?
Stephen Strasburg: 7/$175M (2017-23)
David Price: 7/$217M (2016-22)
Zack Greinke: 6/$206.5M (2016-21)
Max Scherzer: 7/$201M (2015-21)
Clayton Kershaw: 7/$215M (2014-20)
Justin Verlander: 7/$180M (2013-19)
 
The question is, how good were these pitchers, what age, and how did they do after they got a big contract? Let's take a look:
Pitcher: Two years before payday...Years after payday
Strasburg (28): 3.5, 4.0....5.9, 2.4, 5.7 (avg 4.7/yr)
Price (30): 5.6, 6.7......4.4, 1.5, 2.4, 2.3 (avg 2.7/yr)
Greinke (32) : 4.5, 5.3.....2.3, 4.9, 2.8, 5.4 (avg 3.9/yr)
Scherzer (30): 5.9, 5.6.....6.5, 5.6, 6.4, 7.5, 6.5 (avg 6.5/yr)
Kershaw (26): 6.1, 7.2.....7.9, 8.6, 6.3, 4.3, 3.3, 3.4 (avg 5.6/yr)
Verlander (30):  6.5, 6.9......4.8, 3.2, 3.1, 5.4, 4.1, 6.6, 6.4 (avg 4.8/yr)
 
First of all, that Scherzer contract has been amazing. Expensive, yes, but he's been so consistently elite.
Kershaw looks better than he's becoming, as he's no longer a #1, more of a #2-3. But still good value...so far.
Verlander is interesting because he was looking like yet another big contract player who declined right after, but then he righted the ship and has been as good as ever.
Greinke is the ultimate "mercenary ace." He's really more of a #2 in that he alternates #1 and #3 seasons. Still, not the worst value - just not great.
Price is obviously the cautionary tale. He's still a solid pitcher, but his first year saw a big drop, and even worse the next three. He's pretty much stabilized as a #3-4, but being paid like a #1...one of the Red Sox's several major problems.
And Gerrit Cole? He will be 29 next year and his last two fWARs are 6.0 and 7.4. So the closest comps are Price and Verlander, but he's a year younger. Price got $217M four years ago, and Verlander $180M eight years ago...I think its safe to assume that even if the market has flattened, he's still going to easily get $200M - probably more.
........................
As for Wheeler, I really like him and would be glad if the Angels get him for 4/72 or less, but at 5/100, I'd rather have Odorizzi for 3/50.

Who plays shortstop and 2nd base? 

I remember that thread, pretty sure Lou myself and others welcomed you to the board.   You were pretty fair in acknowledging pitching in the NL would likely impact his numbers in a positive way.
The biggest difference with Keuchel going into next year is the absence of compensation -- he's a year older, he actually had a worse year from a predictive data perspective than he did last year so, the warts are still there.  But, the one thing he does bring is reliable innings and there is value to that, maybe more to the Angels than other teams that haven't had the injury issues we have seen here.   Ultimately I think they need to see where the market takes it, and what his demands end up being.  He's still a Boras client I think... so, there is the distinct possibility he will again be marketed as something better than he is.
Anyway, as pretty as his ERA looks, his FIP was 4.49.   He's a secondary acquisition IMO and should be paid as such..   Maybe something along the lines of what Anibal Sanchez got?  Dude threw 136 innings for Braves last year putting up a 2.83 ERA   His peripherals were better across the board, his FIP came in at 3.62.   
Sanchez got 2/19 plus an option year.   IMO thats about as high as anyone should go with Keuchel.

I now coin  Stradling's Law: "As a discussion Angelswin grows longer, the probability of it devolving a squabble between Stradling and someone else approaches 1."
I'm home.

We are going to have to address pitching one way or the other.  We do have trade-able commodities, but we just do not want to give them up.  I bet if we offered a team Marsh, Kole, Thaiss, and maybe Soto we could get some nice AAA pitching prospects in return.  Because even if we do sign Garrett Cole next year (which is a big if), there will be a dramatic drop off between Cole, Ohtani, and everyone else.  I know Heaney's had a rough year but he seems to have regressed to me.  He's struggled with his command and continually gets behind in the count.  And I am not sure what happened to Canning Griffith.  He hit a brick wall lately.  I hope he can work through it because both Griffith and Suarez have had some major growing pains this year.  I think Canning will eventually bounce back, but I have serious concerns that Suarez recent control problems also are correlated with his magically increased velocity.  Suarez has struggled all year, even before he was called up. 

Perhaps he is just simply adjusting?  Ever since being drafted, he hasn't missed a beat.  I'd love to see a recent scouting report on him.  In fact, there are a lot of pitchers this year that have encouraging numbers.  I really wonder who has a lot of buzz inside the organization.  I think we'll have a lot guys in A ball who will either get or get very close to a 100 inning's pitched and a 100 strikeouts this year: Oliver Ortega, Hector Yan, Kyle Tyler, Luis Alvarado, Christopher Molina, Dennis Brady, Robinson Pina, Cole Duensing,  Andrew Wantz (I know he's in AA, but started the year in A), and Jose Soriano was well on his way before he got put on the DL.  I wonder if any of the above guys (minus Soriano) project as legitimate potential starters.  Brady, Pina, Yan, and Ortega are now starting to break into some top 30 lists.  Again, whether these guys are projectable or not I have no clue.  But we haven't had this level of production and quality pitching in a long time. 

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I'd opt for Gary Mathews Jr. over Finley ? 

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

Do any of you prospect hounds want to make a guess who the biggest risers and fallers have been in our organization?  
Fallers (guys who will drop or fall out of top 30 all together)
 
1. Jones (I say he falls about 10 spots)
2. Chris Rodriguez (I say he drops about 10 spots ... only due to uncertainty.  He can shoot back up quickly as he drops). 
3. Sandoval (about 10-15 spots ... I just don't think he has big league stuff)
4. Castillo (will fall out of top 30
5. Beasily (will fall out of top 30)
6. Kruger (will fall out of top 30)
7. Lund (will fall out of top 30)
8. Swanda (will fall out of top 30)
9. Jewell (will fall out of top 30)
 
Guys who will make a jump. 
1. Soriano (top 5 next year)
2. Walsh (top 10-15 next year)
3. Yan (maybe top 10 next year)
4. Franco (maybe top 15 next year)
5. Alvarado (maybe top 20 next year)
6. Molina (maybe top 20 next year)
7. Ortega (maybe top 20 next year)
8. Wantz (maybe top 30)
9. Warren (maybe top 30)
Others for consideration: Rainer, Vera,  and Moncion.  
 
Now, this doesn't include the new guys we drafted.  Ultimately I think our top ten will look something like this ...
1. Adell
2. Marsh
3. Soriano
4. Adams
5. Knowles
6. Thaiss
7. Jackson 
8. Wilson
9. Yan
10. Kochanowicz
 
Thoughts anyone?

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I remember a while back there was a thread asking about the biggest surprise of the year for us.  At the end time most said La Stella which was obvious.  A handful of us mentioned Fletcher (who at the time had an OPS above .800).  I know in the modern era of baseball baseball unless you hit 20 plus HR's and have an OPS over 900 you'll be an after thought.  But, this is the first time that Mike Trout this deep in the season has lead the American League in RBI's.  We never had a true lead off man in front of him.  If you subtract HR's from runs scored, David Fletcher has 43 (only behind Trout with 44).  In other words, he gets on base and scores a lot of runs.  At this rate, Fletcher is on pace to have a WAR around 5.  IMHO, Fletcher deserved all-star consideration this year, but didn't have the pop or flash to draw the attention.  I believe next to Trout, David Fletcher has been our most valuable player.  

I think we all echo those sediments about Tyler, Angel Oracle. 
For the last few years, and in particular with the passing of Tyler, I have had this sense that the Angels were a cursed franchise.  I remember when Adenhart was killed and what that did the organization.  Much of the media failed to mention guys like Valbuena when talking about the recent Angels who died way too young, but I considered the bat flipper an Angel as well when he passed.  And maybe I suffer from tunnel vision, because I do not follow the rest of MLB as nearly as close as I follow the Angels.  But, it seems to me we have an awful lot of players (current and former) who meet tragic ends, even more than other teams.  I could be wrong, but it seems that way to me.  In addition, the mountain of injuries that hit our organization is overwhelming.  It's so ludicrous we joke about how we should just have all our pitchers get TJ surgery so they can just get it out of the way.   For some reason, this organization has just felt a bit cursed or snake bit to me - plagued more so by tragedy and injuries than other organizations (not just baseball but any sport). 
The passing of Skaggs really shook my love for baseball. I've read about athletes dying before, and even ones on my favorite team.  But Skaggs hit me much harder than any other.  A lot harder.  I made a post about him on this very board just two hours before I read about his death.  I still get choked up thinking about it and him.  And I am not an emotional person at all. 
Every morning, like many of you I am sure, after I get up and make coffee I immediately pull up all the Angel's minor league clubs and read how they did the night before.  I live in Houston, so often times I crash before the games are complete and am unable to read about them at night.  But after Skaggs passed, I've had a hard time doing that.  Hell, I couldn't even go near baseball for about a week.  I would read to see how the team is doing, but I truly did not care if they won or lost.  Just recently, I've started prospect hounding a little more, but some times when I would look up stats on the angels mlb website, my eyes go immediately to the Skaggs stat line, and my stomach would sink a bit and I stopped caring again.  
But after last nights game, something is a bit different.  It's like, the universe or the baseball Gods, or whatever just told me that it is OK to care about baseball again.  And because the team probably had it best single day performance in every way on the very night they decided to honor Skaggs signals to me that this team can and will rise above all the tragedy, injuries, and other bullshit and accomplish something special.  I am not saying we will win the world series this year, but I feel this team is headed for great things pretty soon.  It may not be this year, but it will be soon.  It's almost like the Angels just broke their curse.  I do not know, maybe I am still a bit buzzed from the euphoria of our performance last night, but something tells me the curse is over.