Hubs

@ettin I'm sure you grabbed the stats from somewhere, but I am interested to see how the pitching numbers are affected by using the "opener" which I do not expect to continue in 2020. I think the number was even worse for the starters, if you include their "primary pitcher" and ditch the opener. And likewise, the pen actually probably ranks better if you include the 30 or so starts made by the openers, and drop out the poor "primary pitcher" stats.

And the year later, the Red Sox won the World Series by using the payroll flexibility.

I'd take on Eovaldi if it meant getting Betts for a lower prospect cost, but Price is a bit much to take on. And I think that Betts would totally leave after one season, but they would get the qualifying draft pick.

Clevinger wasn't a highly rated prospect at the time he was traded for Pestano. He wasn't a high draft pick, and had 4.41 ERA in his first season at A ball the year he was traded. I don't know what his record was when he was traded vs. after as it's just a summary of the whole year. Regardless, wasn't setting the world on fire. He had a 9.56 ERA in rookie ball, and hadn't been healthy in three previous years managing just 14 appearances (11 starts) ove the 2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons. I don't think you trade for Hader, but you have to trade quality to get quality, and the Angels did need relief help at the deadline in 2014. Still, yes, you are right in that relievers are a hard commodity to actualize, and that their performance swings from year to year are much more frequent now than ever before in the past...

This is the only type of deal they could move Cozart in please stop saying it’s not possible. It’s possible in a deal like this. Whether he ever suits up or contributes value to the Sox is irrelevant.

One or two years slightly over the $208 / $210 threshold isn't gonna kill the team.

They've done this kind of proposed offseason spending before. Arte committed $254+$77.5+$85+34+35+3... Between 2011 and 2012, (including Weaver's extension in August)... Now, that was on a $140 M payroll, which has since been pushed about $20-$40. The Angels highest opening day payroll has been at $166.6 in 2018, but year end luxury tax payroll that year was at $176.7 down from $188.5. 2019 was at $158.9 Opening Day, and will end somewhere close to the previous years $176.7- 40 man payroll... I'd assume. For 2020, I can see an Opening Day payroll of $200. He'll try not to go over the tax.

HAHA, must've skipped right over him. I think I'd defer to you all on the #16-#30 guys, but I'd probably move Rodriguez down, take Sandoval off (if Suarez is off the list, so should Sandoval be...10 starts is a lot of starts.) Move Wilson and Paris up. #1 Adell #2 Marsh #3 Adams #4 Jackson #5 Jones #6 Soriano #7 Wilson #8 Paris #9 Knowles #10 Rodriguez #11 Kochanowicz #12 Yan #13 Hernandez #14 Walsh #15 Maitan

Yes, Thanks. I was surprised to see Knowles ranked 4th on earlier lists I saw. I always think the top 4 guys are Adell, Marsh, Adams, and Wilson. Jones rounding out the top 5. But then Jackson jumped up with his 23 HR season, so.. I was surprised Knowles was 4th on their list and 14th on yours. And Where's DeVeuax?

This thread took such a turn. Props to Doc's Little man in a boat reference.

Why the difference between national rankings and these rankings in regards to Jones, Knowles, and Rodriguez?

Yeah I revised that initial trade to exclude Heaney once I looked at values. I think Jones is enough of a prospect along with Rengifo and Cozart. Maybe a Barria.That seems light but it’s not if they take on Kimbrell

The Reds are still listed as the winners of the 1919 Series, even though it's assumed that the White Sox (Black Sox) threw it. My thoughts on punishment: 1) Vacate the entire 2019 and 2020 Astros draft classes. The whole thing. 2) Ban them from international signings for three years. 3) Maximum fines. 4) AJ Hinch, 2 year ban 5) Lunhow, lifetime ban 6) Cora and all other coaches involved in 2017, 2018, and 2019 seasons, 1 year ban (INCLUDING BELTRAN). 7) Three years of locker room / dugout monitoring for Astros organization. Throw the book at them. This is the third or fourth time they've been caught doing something unscrupulous under Lunhow. If the Braves guy got a lifetime ban for messing around with signings in the Dominican...this should be the same level of punishment.

Ya, that's why I'd flip him for an equally undesirable player in an area we actually need. If there was an overpaid catcher or an overpaid starter coming off an injury...as it is, even if he's back to full strength, he... at best is the utility infielder off the bench. And Rengifo then is in AAA.

They actually rated him as -12.7 on the trade site, saying he's basically gonna get 0 WAR. Kimbrell Was around -20.

If they can get him without giving up Marsh, Adams or obviously Adell, I say do it. I know he's meh defensively, but presumably, they keep Stassi or Smith or both as the backup. Contreras over the last three seasons hit to these numbers. <script type="text/javascript" src="//widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=br&url=%2Fplayers%2Fc%2Fcontrwi01.shtml&div=div_batting_standard"></script> He's been worth 3.9, 2.8 and 3.1 WAR. His fielding percentage as a Catcher is .987. He has a career 31% CS Percentage. He's graded as a average framer, yes, but to say he's not a good defender is to only focus on that one skill. He's basically a better fielding Mike Napoli, in his prime. Yes you can sign Gomes or Chirinos but why not swing for the fences.

Or take on an equally bad salary for more years or more money, in a position we can actually use. Trading him for an overpriced ineffective reliever or a starter who is owed a lot of money but isn't quite what the team thought they were getting is totally possible.

Kimbrell. As stated several times. 2/32 with a 1 year option at 1M buyout.

It's also about saving $16M in 2021. They save a bit this year, save a lot next year.

This was Joel Sherman's suggestion yesterday. I like it because you get a potential asset, for basically your 3rd string utility guy.

We'd be taking on Kimbrel, who is worth less.

They'd have the money then to go get a CF...because Rengifo can play 2B this season and leadoff.

I know you love prospects more than actual Major League players, but if Rengifo and Adams gets you a 27 year old power bat as a catcher, you do it. Rengifo's ceiling is what, Didi Gregorius? Adams is a physical specimen I'd rather not trade, but you have to part with someone to trade for someone. You really value Rengifo over Wilson? Seriously? I'd do the trade above with Wilson subbed for Rengifo, and add in the Kimbrel / Cozart swap.

Neither of those Catchers is a primary Catcher. They need offense, and most of the budget is set to get FA starters. If you could get Contreras for Adams and Rengifo, you've got to do it.

I like both of them, and would only trade one if they're adding a young guy like Contreras or Bryant or Lindor.