Hubs

HAHA, must've skipped right over him. I think I'd defer to you all on the #16-#30 guys, but I'd probably move Rodriguez down, take Sandoval off (if Suarez is off the list, so should Sandoval be...10 starts is a lot of starts.) Move Wilson and Paris up. #1 Adell #2 Marsh #3 Adams #4 Jackson #5 Jones #6 Soriano #7 Wilson #8 Paris #9 Knowles #10 Rodriguez #11 Kochanowicz #12 Yan #13 Hernandez #14 Walsh #15 Maitan

Yes, Thanks. I was surprised to see Knowles ranked 4th on earlier lists I saw. I always think the top 4 guys are Adell, Marsh, Adams, and Wilson. Jones rounding out the top 5. But then Jackson jumped up with his 23 HR season, so.. I was surprised Knowles was 4th on their list and 14th on yours. And Where's DeVeuax?

This thread took such a turn. Props to Doc's Little man in a boat reference.

Why the difference between national rankings and these rankings in regards to Jones, Knowles, and Rodriguez?

Yeah I revised that initial trade to exclude Heaney once I looked at values. I think Jones is enough of a prospect along with Rengifo and Cozart. Maybe a Barria.That seems light but it’s not if they take on Kimbrell

The Reds are still listed as the winners of the 1919 Series, even though it's assumed that the White Sox (Black Sox) threw it. My thoughts on punishment: 1) Vacate the entire 2019 and 2020 Astros draft classes. The whole thing. 2) Ban them from international signings for three years. 3) Maximum fines. 4) AJ Hinch, 2 year ban 5) Lunhow, lifetime ban 6) Cora and all other coaches involved in 2017, 2018, and 2019 seasons, 1 year ban (INCLUDING BELTRAN). 7) Three years of locker room / dugout monitoring for Astros organization. Throw the book at them. This is the third or fourth time they've been caught doing something unscrupulous under Lunhow. If the Braves guy got a lifetime ban for messing around with signings in the Dominican...this should be the same level of punishment.

Ya, that's why I'd flip him for an equally undesirable player in an area we actually need. If there was an overpaid catcher or an overpaid starter coming off an injury...as it is, even if he's back to full strength, he... at best is the utility infielder off the bench. And Rengifo then is in AAA.

They actually rated him as -12.7 on the trade site, saying he's basically gonna get 0 WAR. Kimbrell Was around -20.

If they can get him without giving up Marsh, Adams or obviously Adell, I say do it. I know he's meh defensively, but presumably, they keep Stassi or Smith or both as the backup. Contreras over the last three seasons hit to these numbers. <script type="text/javascript" src="//widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=br&url=%2Fplayers%2Fc%2Fcontrwi01.shtml&div=div_batting_standard"></script> He's been worth 3.9, 2.8 and 3.1 WAR. His fielding percentage as a Catcher is .987. He has a career 31% CS Percentage. He's graded as a average framer, yes, but to say he's not a good defender is to only focus on that one skill. He's basically a better fielding Mike Napoli, in his prime. Yes you can sign Gomes or Chirinos but why not swing for the fences.

Or take on an equally bad salary for more years or more money, in a position we can actually use. Trading him for an overpriced ineffective reliever or a starter who is owed a lot of money but isn't quite what the team thought they were getting is totally possible.

Kimbrell. As stated several times. 2/32 with a 1 year option at 1M buyout.

It's also about saving $16M in 2021. They save a bit this year, save a lot next year.

This was Joel Sherman's suggestion yesterday. I like it because you get a potential asset, for basically your 3rd string utility guy.

We'd be taking on Kimbrel, who is worth less.

They'd have the money then to go get a CF...because Rengifo can play 2B this season and leadoff.

I know you love prospects more than actual Major League players, but if Rengifo and Adams gets you a 27 year old power bat as a catcher, you do it. Rengifo's ceiling is what, Didi Gregorius? Adams is a physical specimen I'd rather not trade, but you have to part with someone to trade for someone. You really value Rengifo over Wilson? Seriously? I'd do the trade above with Wilson subbed for Rengifo, and add in the Kimbrel / Cozart swap.

Neither of those Catchers is a primary Catcher. They need offense, and most of the budget is set to get FA starters. If you could get Contreras for Adams and Rengifo, you've got to do it.

I like both of them, and would only trade one if they're adding a young guy like Contreras or Bryant or Lindor.

Taking a chance on Kimbrell for essentially Cozart's money in 2020, is a gamble for sure, but it would significantly lessen the prospects needed to give up. The Cubs site said Adell, Adams and Heaney for Contreras, which is such a dramatic overpay. The trade value site lists Adell at a value of 96.4. Adams is only 8.4, and Heaney was 5.7. Total Value = 110.5 Contreras is listed at 16.2. Total Value 16.2. Drop Adell, and it's more realistic. But I don't really want to give up Heaney either. If you drop out Heaney and Suarez from my projected trade above and add Kimbrell and Cozart to the deal, the value actually favors the Cubs...still. Suarez' value was at 16.2. Kimbrell was -21.2 and Cozart was -12.7. Rengifo is listed at 1.6 FYI. So, my trade, minus the two pitchers: Adams 8.4 Rengifo 1.6 Cozart -12.7 = Total Value -2.7 Contreras 16.2 Kimbrell -21.2 = Total Value -5. Much more realistic. But while the Cubs save around $8 M with this deal, they also don't get anything they really need for 2020, except infield depth. So maybe you have to send them a pitcher like Barria or Sandoval. If you expand it further to add a guy like Kris Bryant, (Value 27) you have to give up a lot more, maybe Marsh instead of Adams (Marsh is at 20), Jose Suarez and Barria. Marsh 20 Rengifo 1.6 Cozart -12.7 Suarez 16.2 Barria 1.1 Total Value = 26.2 Contreras 16.2 Kimbrell -21.2 Bryant 27 Total Value = 22 I doubt they'd do it for that, even though said scenario still favors the Cubs.

The Trade Value site said my trade was way too much of an overpay from the Angels. So drop Suarez I suppose and add a few million in Cash from the Cubs and it gets closer.

Yes the infield depth takes a hit, but you still have La Stella, Fletcher, and Simmons as starters, and Matt Thaiss on the corners. You also have Jose Rojas in AAA. You could sign a Moustakas or a Zobrist if you felt it was necessary. All in all, the Cubs are trading $21 M in salary and acquiring $18 M, which means the total cost is only around $3 M for the Angels.

After starting pitching, some offense out of the catching spot is certainly next on the wish list. I looked around the internet and saw some trade packages that were lopsided in the Cubs favor and ones lopsided in the acquiring teams favor. What is a good return for a guy like Contreras, who is either #1 or #2 as far as hitting catchers go? I saw Adell, Adams, and Heaney for Contreras --- way too friendly to the Cubs side. Adell is not being traded. Even Marsh instead still makes this lean to the Cubs side. However, Adams and say Rengifo plus say Suarez is probably too Angels friendly. Combine it with the Cozart for Kimbrell trade, ditch the prospect coming back and I think you have something. I don't like the idea of trading Heaney, but you can sign a guy like Cole Hamels for a few million more to replace (and maybe exceed) his production. My trade package then is: Jordyn Adams Luis Rengifo Jose Suarez Andrew Heaney Zack Cozart for Willson Contreras Craig Kimbrell

It's fun to see how much Second Base really loves his prospects.

#2 I agree, they should send back another player or prospect. But Price makes only $21M more in real salary than Upton, and Upton is more valuable. But the Angels have two stud OF ready in 2020 or 2021 for playing time. The reason Sherman said they'd be interested is that Price is due $31M per season and his luxury tax is the same. They are near the threshold and Upton's AAV is only $21M per, so they'd get a $10M luxury tax savings. #3 Kimbrel is due $16M in real salary, $14.3M in AAV for the next two seasons. He suggested trading Zack Cozart for Kimbrel and the Cubs sending us a prospect for the salary difference. I'd do this IMO. KImbrel may be down, but he's an elite arm when healthy and right, and for essentially Zack Cozarts money in 2020, plus yes, the same amount in 2021. Maybe you ask them to eat $6-8M of it in 2021. They still save $11-13M.

No trading Adell. I'm not enamored with trading Heaney after a down year, but I like all three of the return packages. (Who Wouldn't?) I also think that they don't need our top prospect to make one of these type deals, and that they could look at getting one of these guys for a deal based around a few prospects.