Hubs

The payroll has been higher than that in recent seasons. He's gonna have to break the bank if he wants to go back to the playoffs, because young pitching isn't gonna all suddenly get significantly better. ANGELS PAYROLLS Year 25-man Opening Day 40-man Year End (rank) 2019 $158,878,583 $ ( ) 2018 $166,649,999 $176,748,648 ( ? 2017 $166,375,833 $188,553,926 ( 7) 2016 $164,673,333 $185,760,439 ( 7)

The 26th guy will be one of the club control guys. They could keep an extra catcher for portions of the season, a fifth OF, a seventh INF, or a 14th pitcher. OF: Trout, Upton, Goodwin, Walsh/Hermosillio -- Adell by June 15th. INF: Pujols, Fletcher, La Stella, Simmons, Thaiss, Rengifo Catchers: Stassi, Smith DH/SP: Ohtani SP: Cole (FA), Bumgarner (FA), Heaney, Canning, Suarez / Sandoval RP: Robles, Buttrey, Bedrosian, Meijia, Anderson, Cole, N. Ramirez, Pena

I forgot this, Good point. Though the conclusion is the same. No Super Two.

Bumgarner has been as good as Cole for years and is only two years older. He won't command as much money. Honestly, if you can get them for $50 M combined per year on the AAV... I'd say do it. Corbin got $140 for 6 last offseason. Cole is better, so say $5 M more average at $28M per for 6/168. Bumgarner gets 4/88. Gonna have to overpay a bit to get him to come to AL, but maybe he wants to DH when Ohtani starts, lol. Maybe you pay them a little less in real dollars in 20 and 21, say $20 and $22 for Cole for 20 and 21, then 27 in 22, then 30 in 23, $33 in 24, and $36 in 2025..... 6/ 168. $19M for 20, $21M for 21, $23 for 22, and $25 for Bumgarner. 4 /88. Anyway-- here's a quick roster breakdown for 2020 and beyond. For 2020, you have 29, 21, 37.667, 15, and 12.667, and 1 M committed to Pujols, Upton, Trout, Simmons, Cozart, and Calhoun respectively for a total of $116.334 for 5 roster spots. They have a lot of players under arbitration, more than usual. Heaney, Bour, JC Ramirez, Bedrosian, La Stella and Garcia are eligible for arbitration 3rd year. Heaney and Cam are definites to bring back and La Stella and Ramirez are likely. I'd estimate say $15M for four guys. Robles and Tropeano will be eligible for the second time. I doubt Tropeano is brought back. Robles will cost 4M maybe as high as $5 but I doubt it. Stassi, Smith, Middleton, Noe Ramirez, and Goodwin will be eligible for the first time. Maybe these 5 guys get $12M combined. At worst then, you have $31M for an additional 10 spots. All of the 2018 rookies, 2019 rookies, and 2020 rookies will be under club control. None should be Super 2 players, as Ohtani missing time to injury probably keeps him from the total number of days needed, but even if he's super 2, shouldn't be that expensive. It's not likely he's a super 2. That includes Ohtani (18), Bard (18), Pena (18), Anderson(18), Fletcher (18), Meija (18), Cole (18), Buttrey (18), Hermosillio (18), Barria (18), Bemboon (19), Canning (19), Jewell (19), Peters?, Rengifo (19), Sandoval (19), Suarez (19), Thaiss (19), Walsh (19), and Ward(18). Plus any 2020 rookies like Jo Adell, etc. This is the bulk of the roster, and I can see the remaining 8 spots go to this group. They'll get paid like $5M total. They sign the two free agent pitchers to the $40M in real salary, and $50 in AAV. 2020 max payroll for the 25 man roster in real dollars should be around $192, AAV will be around $10M more, still well under the Luxury tax line. They may add a catcher, or something else, but I doubt it. In 2021, They'd be at a slightly higher payroll for the same team, if they bring back Simmons, which may push them over the luxury tax line, and they'll likely have to pay Ohtani. Yet, this would only be a one year penalty if at all, and they'd be out from under the Cozart contract so it may be just under the luxury tax line. And in 2022, they get out from under Pujols' money, so they'd be back under the luxury tax line again for sure. They'd be essentially rolling with the same team in 2020 and 2021, with few off-season changes.

Bumgarner and Cole are my two picks.

Also, remember, this year is on pace to be the worst pitching output from the Angels since 2000, and has a chance to top that one too. It's going to be the 3rd or 4th worst pitching season in Angels History.

With Skaggs, they still needed a FA Ace to make this pitching staff competitive for 2020 when Ohtani returns. Without Skaggs, they need two guys. I know Barria is in a 2nd season slump. Canning, Suarez, Sandoval are rookies. Ohtani will only be in his 2nd pitching season. I'd think they're going to go to 6 starters again, with Ohtani. Cole, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Suarez, Sandoval is an ok rotation, but adding one more mid tier guy helps significantly.

Prospects are currency for the major league club. 1 in 5 succeeds. These guys aren't going to all put up the same numbers in Arizona as they have in the minors, and we need pitching. Badly. He was the most obtainable guy and I think we could've offered a decent package and taken on a little more money and made it happen.

You're overrating those pitching prospects. The salary was reduced, and Greinke could've been added in addition to Cole. Corbin Martin ok, but being used as a 3 inning reliever in the majors. JB Bukauskas is a Double A Arm with a 5.25 ERA there. Neither are near MLB Ready SP. Both might end up as relievers. We don't really have similar guys but Suarez is similar to Martin or Bukaskas, and lower down on the farm their is decent pitching prospects. Beer is nice, but is at A/AA and is basically somewhere between Jared Walsh and Brandon Marsh as an OF. Rojas is a AAA and the most ready prospect, and he's slightly better than Taylor Ward or our own Rojas. Ward, Hermosillo or say Adams, Suarez, and a lower tier starter would've been close. Adding someone in place like Thaiss or Rengifo instead of Ward or Maitan or even swapping in Brandon Marsh makes this a better package. You and I can disagree, and that's fine, but these prospects all fit the "Nice" category. They definitely got talent back and more than I thought it would cost. Still, now the Astros have 4 solid pitchers, three of which are probably back in 2020. If the Angels had been able to put up a similar package, they'd have Greinke to face Verlander, and then potentially poaching Cole next offseason and your in the division race. How will they compete if Houston or the Dodgers or Yankees grab Cole in the Offseason? Syndergaard or DeGrom or Boyd or whomever else is going to cost a lot more than Greinke in a trade and there are no solid free agent ace types except Cole on the market, except maybe Bumgarner.

No trades are now permitted until after the World Series if any of the players have been on Active Roster this season at any point.

Ohtani is a nice #2/#3 for us, coming off TJ and also only pitching once per week. They'll need 6 starters or 5 starters plus Pena/JC Combo. Cole, Ohtani, Canning, Heaney, and Suarez/Barria is the five if they sign Cole. Pitchers Cole, Bumgarner, Ohtani, Canning, Heaney, and Pena/JC as the swingmen makes sense to me. (6) Pen is then Robles, Buttrey, Bedrosian, Noe Ramirez, JC Ramirez, Taylor Cole and a lefty TBD, and another guy like Bard too. (8) Position Players Trout, Pujols, Upton, Simmons, Smith, Stassi, Fletcher, Rengifo, Thaiss, Goodwin, LaStella, Adell (12).

He spent $426M last offseason on Trout, he has dramatically increased the budget in the past decade plus. Angels are 2nd in the AL in attendance. He can spend. Look, the team has some dead weight, and while I'd like to have Calhoun back, I don't know if it's in the Cards. Maybe if he accepted like 2/20. Kole will get offers somewhere though. With Adell hitting .308 with a .900 OPS in AA, I feel he's going to open the year in SLC next year. And if he dominates as a 21 year old, he'll be called up for right field. And he'll play nearly every day. He might get a call up this fall in September, as well but I doubt it as they don't need to put him on the 40, and even though Trout was up for some games in his age 19 season in 2011 (2nd full year), the Angels did not have the depth in the OF in 2011 that they do now. With Pujols here in 2020 and presumably 2021, we'll continue to see a platoon at 1st base, with Pujols likely getting the DH starts when Ohtani pitches and on the Monday's after...(say 40 DH starts) and maybe 70 games at 1st. Kole could work into that 1st base platoon if he were retained, instead of a guy like Justin Bour or Matt Thaiss, but I think you waste his throwing arm there. He could play RF and Adell could play LF if you put Upton at 1st, but Upton has never played 1st.

Agreeed...RN I want Cole and Bumgarner, to go along with Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, and Pena/Barria/JC Ram. Cole, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Suarez, and Pena/Barria/JC Ram isn't quite as good. They signed two guys this past offseason and traded for a third. The rotation to open the season was Harvey, Cahill, Pena, Skaggs, and Stanton. Only one of those guys is still in the rotation. (RIP #45). Heaney opened on the DL. When they predictably go to a 5.5 or even a 6 man rotation with Ohtani again, where are the other 5 arms coming from. I'd say adding two arms again in the offseason isn't a stretch.

I am. We needed a front line starter, the package they gave up wasn't that great, and was one we'd easily have been able to match. Now, we need two starters.

Because they don't want to pay $100 M to their starting 5? 30+M for Verlander, 27M for Greinke, and 30+ M for Cole. The reason I though we could get Greinke and Cole here is we don't have another big money pitcher in the rotation. Our highest paid pitcher on the staff currently is Trevor Cahill.

I would've have given up Suarez and Barria, but say Suarez and Sandoval back... I also liked the AAron Sanchez move, if only because I could've called him A-A-Ron.

If the Angels had made the Greinke move giving up the @totdprods package above, it would have meant a shot at the wildcard, like a legit shot. Now instead of Angels having Greinke to face up against Verlander and Cole in the 10+ games left we have, they likely face him three times. Good times.

That package is a better one then they sent. And I still would've done it. It's basically exactly the deal I thought the Angels would have to make, to get a frontline starter like Greinke.

The Greinke news is fucked up. Watch him dominate down the stretch, and I bet the Astros didn't give up anything of note. It makes Cole attainable, but the Dodgers and Yankees will also be after him. Good job Eppler. F*ck.

They would be responsible for the $22 M deferred in 2020 and 2021, and a portion of the deferred money in 2022. The money deferred from previous seasons would definitely be Arizona's responsibility. He's owed around $70 M for 2020 and 2021, and roughly $10M for this season. 11M in both 20 and 21 are deferred with around 3 of this year 10 deferred. Arizona pays the deferred $3 from 2019, and $10M in each of the 2020 and 2021 seasons (half deferred)... Angels on the hook for roughly $57 M over 2.3 years, Of which, $7M is due this year, $20 is due in 2020, and 2021, with $5M payments in two deferred years way down the road. That works for both teams for a package with some good but not great prospects. If they tossed in Ray, or Archie Bradley or Jake Lamb, a package centered around Rengifo, Thaiss, Suarez and Adams gets it done. Probably not Marsh, but if it took Marsh, the D'Backs have to eat more money.

It doesn't if they a) Don't exercise Kole's option, b) non-tender Bour, Ramirez, Garcia, Tropeano c) get the D'backs to eat say $7M current salary and $3M of deferred money and d) go over the Luxury Tax. Next Year's Payroll is listed as 116 before 13 Arbitration cases, one of which is no longer with the team (Puello), so it's 12. I'd bring back 8 of those guys for a total of around $30-$35..plus 5 guys are under multi-year contracts (Pujols, Simmons, Trout, Upton, Cozart) That puts the payroll for 13 guys at say $150 M. Add the minimum guys for another $7M. That's $157 M in Real Payroll. Greinke costs $35. But $11 is deferred. Having the D'backs eat say $7M of the real salary and 3M of the deferred drops his payroll down to $25, of which 7M is deferred. So he'd only be on the books for around $18. That's say $175, and they can then offer Cole a big contract that's not extremely front loaded, but say less money average in his first two years, while Pujols is still on the books. The Luxury Tax is right around the same, because actual salary being $15M more than Luxury Tax payroll, the benefits paid eat that up. They can fit Greinke in and still pursue Cole or Bumgarner or someone else via trade.

Honestly they'll end up a few games better than last year, when they needed to make a ten win improvement. The pitching has been horrible. They've allowed 549 runs in 108 games. Last year in 108, they allowed 462. That's almost a run a game more. Last year, Ohtani had the best numbers, but only 10 games. Barria pitched really well by ERA, but his FIP wasn't as good. They lost 7 pitchers to season ending surgery. Still managed to get 25 starts out of RIchards and Ohtani, in the first half, so that's why the numbers are a bit skewed. This season, the staff is worse. Significantly worse. They need to fire Doug White, because they can argue lack of talent, but everyone who was on the team last year is pitching worse this year, with a better defensive catching duo, who are arguably both better game callers. To get to last years 722 runs allowed, which was 3rd worst since Trout Arrived. (2013, 2016)... this team would have to allow only 3.2 runs per game. They are currently allowing 5+ runs per game. This means that without a trade for controllable starting pitching, they'll more likely end the season with over 820 runs allowed. Which would rank either 3rd or 4th worst pitching season in this franchise's history. It can easily exceed Mike Scioscia's worst season, pitching wise, which was also his debut season. Nagy was underrated and should've been retained. And to get into contention next year, that means that next years starters will have to give up 200 less runs. How is that going to happen by simply signing Gerritt Cole, and hoping Ohtani is as good as he was pre-TJ? Right now, I'd trade for two controllable starters. Two. And try to get into the wildcard race if only because this offense is also on pace for the best offensive output (830 runs scored) we've had since 2009. It would be tied for 6th all time, behind 2009, 1979, 2002, 2004, and 2000. They made the playoffs in all of those years but one. So get Greinke, if you can. Trade for Ray if you can as well. There are other guys out there who are controllable, that they can try to get. It will cost prospects. Everyone is available except Canning and Adell. They may have to go over the cap, to get an expensive guy and be able to sign a pitcher next season. I'd still do it. I'd take a flyer on guys like Archie Bradley or Aaron Sanchez or Danny Duffy...too. This team needs pitching and a lot of it.

Greinke makes the most sense. They eat a lot of his contract and they don't have to give up elite prospects like Marsh. I think they need two though. So if they want Stroman or say Boyd, they'll have to give up Marsh. Adell is untouchable. Marsh is gotta be an elite arm back.

Here are the pitchers at SLC. Pitchers (click column headers to sort) # Name Pos Bat Thw Ht Wt DOB Status MLB 40-man 10 Jason Alexander P R R 6' 3" 200 03-01-1993 Active No Miguel Almonte P R R 6' 1" 210 04-04-1993 7-day IL No 29 Matt Ball P R R 6' 5" 200 01-23-1995 Active No 37 Luke Bard P R R 6' 3" 200 11-13-1990 Active Yes 23 Parker Bridwell P R R 6' 4" 185 08-02-1991 Active No 33 Adrian De Horta P R R 6' 3" 185 03-13-1995 7-day IL No 7 Sam Freeman P R L 5' 11" 180 06-24-1987 Active No 25 Jake Jewell P R R 6' 3" 200 05-16-1993 Active Yes 15 Alex Klonowski P R R 6' 4" 195 04-01-1992 7-day IL No 11 Greg Mahle P L L 6' 2" 230 04-17-1993 7-day IL No 34 Adam McCreery P L L 6' 9" 250 12-31-1992 Active Yes 20 Dillon Peters P L L 5' 11" 190 08-31-1992 Active Yes 40 Jeremy Rhoades P R R 6' 4" 250 02-12-1993 Active No 16 Jose Rodriguez P R R 6' 2" 175 08-29-1995 Active No 28 Zac Ryan P R R 6' 1" 201 05-28-1994 Active No 30 Patrick Sandoval P L L 6' 3" 190 10-18-1996 Active No 43 Nick Tropeano P R R 6' 4" 205 08-27-1990 Active Yes

Are you sure? What about when a guy gets a long suspension, like the 80 game one? I think the team doesn't play short for those 80. EDIT: You're right. It plays a man short. Drug suspensions are different.