stormngt

On 1/24/2024 at 4:57 PM, Torridd said:

What would you rather one year of Ohtani or one year guarantee of good health without him?

Year of good health

On 1/4/2024 at 1:24 PM, tdawg87 said:

Is that all it's about? He deserves a 2nd chance so we should be the ones to give it to him? 

Why? 

1. We need pitching 

2.  He used to be a TOR pitcher

3.  Probably better than who we have had pitch the last half decade

11 minutes ago, AngelFanInTheATL said:

It's clear that a majority of people on this board want Bauer signed not because they think he can actually help the team win, but because he's the latest Fox News cause celebre. "Hey, we love our sex pests and we're pissed that we're no longer allowed to sexually harass women in the workplace because of woke liberals, so let's get our revenge." 

Ten pages on a guy who hasn't pitched in the big leagues in almost three years.

 

Troll

On 1/2/2024 at 12:55 PM, Michael ANGEL Towers said:

I always felt Pujols had one more MVP season in him after signing in Anaheim. I feel Trout should consider makeing a small adjustment to his approach and swing to show his full skill set as a hitter. 

Dont go for HR every at bat.

5 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Billy Wagner had a higher save % (69 blown saves, 85.9%) than Rodriguez (76 blown saves, 85.2%)

I do believe save conversion rate is a good stat for closers.  However the difference was 7 blown saves.  About one every two years played.  There isnt much difference.

47 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

Billy Wagner had a higher save % (69 blown saves, 85.9%) than Rodriguez (76 blown saves, 85.2%)

You are talking about a .7 difference.

2 hours ago, Roy Hobbs said:

You asked why he gets no "love" and I think that is why.I get what you're saying but I think we look at DV a little different than 50 years ago. He beat up the father of his girlfriend and punched and kicked the mother of his child.How many of those older players were arrested?

Like you said, they looked at things differently 50 years ago.  Hell just by watching Hollywood movies  of those times, its no wonder why domestic violence was so common.  

2 hours ago, m0nkey said:

And strikeouts, and K/9, H/9, BB/9.  

But other than that

So those stats are more important than actually closing out games.  For a closer the object of the game is to not let the opponent tie the game or win the game.

So i really do not care if he gets all strikouts or closes it with a DP.

4 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

It's probably the two domestic violence arrests.

I am willing to bet there are a lot more HOF members who have hit their wives.  I am sure just over 50% of the ones who played in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 70s have hit their wives.

4 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Joe Nathan is not in the Hall of Fame.  Last year was his first year of eligibility and he was named on only 4.3% of the ballots, which means he has been removed from further voting consideration.

My bad, will edit it.  I misread the news report.

There is a lot of love for Wagner to get into the HOF.  However, none for KRod.

Both played 16 years.  Wagner has better ERA, ERA +, Whip, FIP.

KRod has more Saves, holds the record for most saves in a season, won a WS, and was a closer for 5 playoff teams.  A Closer does play a pivotal role in winning championship.  And it could be argued without KRod in 2002, Angels don't win the WC let alone the WS.

And i have been told many times on this board that ERA for a meaningless stat.

And for a closer, their ultimate job is to save the game and close it out.

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

You might want to do a little research on that.

Forgive me. I was thinking the time they were in Anaheim.   They still will be California Angels to me.

On 12/11/2023 at 2:39 PM, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I have never been a big fan of state names for professional sports teams. The rest of it seems like a good idea - meaning that the Angels won't do it. Moreno will continue to believe that we are just a couple of free agents away from winning it all.

California was their first name.  Would love to see it back.

2 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Discuss!

Stolen bases must mean a lot to War

I hope Ohtani sucks....against the Angels.

I am pretty ambivalent about the rest of the time.  

Although it would bring me joy if Dog fans lose it  if he doesnt live up to their "godlike " expectations 

6 hours ago, Jay said:

I make no such pledge to be an Angels fan for life. My patience wears thin.

However as long as I remain an Angels fan there is no way I root for Ohtani.

I am been a fan of this shitty seventies,  through three good years and rest shitty 80s, back to shit 90s.

Patience is a requirement to be an true Angel fan

On 12/20/2023 at 10:08 AM, totdprods said:

Eh. The Angels were in decent shape late July. It was Arte's last chance to win with Ohtani (and maybe help sway negotiations) and their first true shot at contending in years. Arte has long said his focus is on the fans and their experience. Most fans don't care about the farm. Most fans only care when the team is winning, and don't really care when they're not. It's only us diehards who see the baseball logic. Arte sees it as no more than a passing entertainment moment. When we remove our diehard emotions from the equation, keeping Ohtani was the obvious move to make. It had the best chance of giving the Angels a winning team in the moment and bringing fans in. It didn't work out. Those same casual fans will come back whenever the Angels are winning again. 

Flipping switches, sure, it would've been great to trade Ohtani and get some prospects back, plus keeping the ones we dealt, but while we did trade away a bunch of interesting guys, I don't think we gave away a bunch of future perennial All-Stars. Quero could be Victor Caratini, and he was arguably the best prospect we lost. Our farm is just that bad.

Also, these franchise player deals rarely make the impact people would expect. 

Betts and Price to Dodgers - Verdugo has been decent, now a Yankee, Downs has bounced around, Connor Wong is okay but not looking like much
Goldschmidt to Cardinals - Carson Kelly and Luke Weaver were the big gets, and both have basically flopped and become DFA waiver bait
McCutchen to Giants - hey! A good deal! Pirates got Bryan Reynolds
Longoria to GIants - Denard Span and a slew of flop prospects
Stanton to Yankees - Starlin Castro and a couple prospects yet to have any impact
You can go on with first Verlander trade, Miguel Cabrera, Nolan Arenado, Francisco Lindor, Blake Snell...none of these created franchise-altering returns. 

As nice as it would've been to get a cadre of prospects back from Tampa (who notoriously trades well), I have doubts that it would've done made a massive difference. If anything, Perry's work to trim payroll and get the Angels back into 2nd round comp pick territory might be almost on-par with the type of surefire guy we would've gotten back. 

If the Angels want to rebuild the farm, the best way to do it over the next 1-3 years will be avoiding FAs who cost them a pick and selling high on arb. guys like Rengifo, Ward, Sandoval, and Canning. 
If they sign one-year guys the next two years and flip them at the deadline, they'll arguably restock the farm with the same quality of guys they lost last deadline. 

Not a monumental deficit to overcome, IMO.

Missing the point. 

Angels had a choice to trade him or not.  They had to ask are we going to re-sign him or not.  If not, then they should trade.  Would it have turned the Angels into champions?  Maybe not, but getting assets in return for a diminishing asset was the smart play.  They were not smart

At this stage Baur is a no brainer.  We need pitching.  The allegations were false. 

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Eh. The Angels were in decent shape late July. It was Arte's last chance to win with Ohtani (and maybe help sway negotiations) and their first true shot at contending in years. Arte has long said his focus is on the fans and their experience. Most fans don't care about the farm. Most fans only care when the team is winning, and don't really care when they're not. It's only us diehards who see the baseball logic. Arte sees it as no more than a passing entertainment moment. When we remove our diehard emotions from the equation, keeping Ohtani was the obvious move to make. It had the best chance of giving the Angels a winning team in the moment and bringing fans in. It didn't work out. Those same casual fans will come back whenever the Angels are winning again. 

Flipping switches, sure, it would've been great to trade Ohtani and get some prospects back, plus keeping the ones we dealt, but while we did trade away a bunch of interesting guys, I don't think we gave away a bunch of future perennial All-Stars. Quero could be Victor Caratini, and he was arguably the best prospect we lost. Our farm is just that bad.

Also, these franchise player deals rarely make the impact people would expect. 

Betts and Price to Dodgers - Verdugo has been decent, now a Yankee, Downs has bounced around, Connor Wong is okay but not looking like much
Goldschmidt to Cardinals - Carson Kelly and Luke Weaver were the big gets, and both have basically flopped and become DFA waiver bait
McCutchen to Giants - hey! A good deal! Pirates got Bryan Reynolds
Longoria to GIants - Denard Span and a slew of flop prospects
Stanton to Yankees - Starlin Castro and a couple prospects yet to have any impact
You can go on with first Verlander trade, Miguel Cabrera, Nolan Arenado, Francisco Lindor, Blake Snell...none of these created franchise-altering returns. 

As nice as it would've been to get a cadre of prospects back from Tampa (who notoriously trades well), I have doubts that it would've done made a massive difference. If anything, Perry's work to trim payroll and get the Angels back into 2nd round comp pick territory might be almost on-par with the type of surefire guy we would've gotten back. 

If the Angels want to rebuild the farm, the best way to do it over the next 1-3 years will be avoiding FAs who cost them a pick and selling high on arb. guys like Rengifo, Ward, Sandoval, and Canning. 
If they sign one-year guys the next two years and flip them at the deadline, they'll arguably restock the farm with the same quality of guys they lost last deadline. 

Not a monumental deficit to overcome, IMO.

At the trade deadline:  Trout, Rendon, And Drury were all on the IL.  Yes we were close to a playoff spot but with the injuries things were bleak.  

It was a dumbass move not to trade him if you werent all in.

58 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

There's a set interest rate that is factored into their calculation for the net present value of the money and how much will count against the luxury tax.  Not sure why you're up in arms about this.  It's a standard calculation that's used for any contract with deferred money.  The Dodgers aren't doing anything shady here. 

My point is he is given money (either in direct payment or in deferred payments) for ten years of work.  The entire contract should be based on ten year average.  Thats all.  I don't  mind Ohtani going to the Dogs.  I mind the "loophole" to avoid the tax.  I dont like it.

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

Because $68M in 2043 is "worth" significantly less than $68M in 2024. 

So they know exactly how much interest rate will average over time?

Bullshit.  He is paid during his first ten years for first ten years of service.  He just doesnt access 68 million.  Dies his account collect interest duribg that ten years?

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

Because it's actually ($2M X 10 years) + ($68M X 10 years) = $700M total.  All the other stuff is just accounting and luxury tax equations.  Ohtani will receive a total of $700M from the Dodgers, $20M of which will be paid in "real time" over the next 10 years, and $680M of which will be deferred and paid out in equal increments over the following 10 years.

Thats what i thought.

I still dont understabd why differed money is counted less than real money.

On 12/17/2023 at 1:44 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

I believe it is $44 mil put into the deferred account annually.

2 mil x 10 years = 20 million

44 mil x 10 years = 46 million

So how is his contract 700 million?

On 12/14/2023 at 9:02 PM, Docwaukee said:

Committing $700mil to Ohtani essentially obligates you to a lot more than that.  

I would have to guess that any 'opportunity' to match the Dogs contract would have also included various stipulations in regard to a commitment to win.  Betting there was a more robust opt out clause than the dogs were given.  

the dogs are going to have a huge payroll regardless of one player.  The Angels likely aren't or at least Arte wouldn't want one player to dictate how he was going to run his business over the next 10 years and the impact of that over 20.  

Think of it this way.  Ohtani created space for the Dogs to add payroll in the first 10 years and still owe him almost 70m per after that stint is over.  

Was it ever realistic for Arte to guarantee a payroll of $230+ mil for Ohtani's first 10 years AND give him another 700m for the following 10?  That's probably closer to a commitment of a billion dollars actually.  

Throwing big money at the team once in awhile is a lot different than a 20 year commitment for a 77 year old man who's almost sold the team once recently.  

And let's be honest.  It's a lot easier to tell the fanbase that you want the team to be competitive and roll with a competitive payroll than to be forced into your max limits for a decade.  

It doesnt work that way.  For ten years, Ohtani will get 2 million for direct pay, and another 68 million put into a deferred account.  Dogs pay 70 million for ten years.  Ohtabi collects 10 million fir furst ten years and then collect 68 million a year for the next ten.

On 12/14/2023 at 5:56 PM, cals said:

So it changes my opinion of Ohtani if he did in fact want to stay with the Angels but took the Dodgers money when Moreno wouldn’t match.  

And it’s absolutely asinine for Moreno not to match whatever was being offered by other teams after he chose not to trade him.  

What it tells me is the Angels front office severely underestimated what he was going to get (like most of us here).

This