FireThemAll

Marlins West.

Wait, am I missing something or was it suggested that the only satisfactory way of measuring how much Cabrera's defense has cost the Tigers was by going game by game and somehow determining whether Cabrera's defensive play cost the Tigers that particular game?
 
I don't even know where to begin with that. Because first of all, that would only give you the errors he's committed, which is only a piece of the equation. It ignores the balls that just wizz right past him because his range there is one step and a fall to the ground. Those hurt the Tigers too, even if they don't show up in a boxscore.
 
And then there's the standard of "costing the Tigers the game", which is dubious at best.
 
Obviously Cabrera committing an error that allows the other team to tie and/or take a lead fits into that fairly easily(not necessarily totally fairly in every case, considering everything else that happened in a particular baseball game, but I digress).
 
But Cabrera flopping to the ground and missing a double down the line that a good fielder turns into an out that brings in runs in the 8th or 9th hurts the Tigers just as much if not more than the throw that sails over Prince Fielder's head. Not going to show up in a box score.
 
Or what about an error or missed play by Cabrera in the 3rd or 4th inning that costs the Tigers runs, but the other team doesn't take the lead until later in the game because of something else? That certainly still hurts the Tigers even if it didn't directly "cost them the game"
 
And really, you could go so far as to ignore a play that brings in runs altogether, and (pretty accurately) point out that Cabrera missing a play in the early innings that doesn't bring in any runs but forces Scherzer or Verlander to throw an extra 15-20 pitches and therefore exit the game earlier also hurts the Tigers, because then you're forced to get outs out of a middle reliever instead of one of your better starting pitchers.
 
tl;dr version: This is either an excellent troll attempt, or one of the silliest things I've read on this board...ever.

You act like fangraphs is some crazy website with hokie statistics and witchcraft. It's actually very useful and provides statistics which can't be found in a generic box score.
Also, has he even mentioned that site in this thread?

I don't understand. How can Trout be a better overall player, but not be more valuable? That doesn't make sense to me.

I still don't understand how anyone would judge who the best player is by any metric that wouldn't also make them the most valuable player.  I don't care what team that player is on (that is completely out of their control, and so is the division that that team is in,) the best the player is the most valuable player and vice versa.

I'm not concerned with what someone's previous opinions were. If they are right about a current topic then what they were wrong about previously is irrelevant. Look at this board. Half the people in here supported the Iraq War in 2003 and the other half voted for Obama in 2008. We've all been wrong before. But we're all* right about this. That's all that matters right now.
*Except Scott

I really don't think some people realize how bad Cabrera is at third base. He literally has no range at all. He's a fat lard who should be playing DH. He costs the Tigers so many runs at 3rd. Even if Trout is a replacement level defensive player like the metrics are saying he is this year (I don't believe he is), he is still SIGNIFICANTLY better than Cabrera on the defensive side of the ball. Baserunning is another thing that you have to watch Cabrera to realize how bad he is at it. He's basically Pujols on the bases. Think about all the times over the course of a season that Cabrera is on first with one out, and a Tigers player hits a single that Trout would easily make it to 3rd on, but Cabrera has to stop at second because of his utter lack of speed and athleticism. Think about all the times over the course of a season that Cabrera is on 1st with 2 outs in the inning, and a Tigers player hits a ball in the gap that Trout would easily score on, but Cabrera has to stop at 3rd because of his lack of speed. These types of things add up, and Cabrera has cost the Tigers many runs on plays that Trout would have scored on.

Total bases from hits:
Trout - 295
MCab - 329
 
Add in steals:
 
Trout - 295+31=326
MCab - 329+3=332
 
Add in walks:
Trout - 326+85=411
MCab - 329+77=406
 
Add in HBP:
Trout - 411+7=418
MCab - 406+3=409
 
Add in reached on errors:
Trout - 418+9=427
MCab - 406+0=406
 
Not all bases are equal and it certainly takes a lot of "other production" to make up for that difference but Trout is so much better in "other production" that Cabrera can't match.
 
We didn't even factor in the defensive discrepancy, which is huge. Not to mention other baserunning - scoring from 2nd on a single, 1st on a double, 1st to third on a single, etc.
 
Looking at the total bases number it shouldn't be tough to imagine a player like Trout being able to make up 20 HRs worth of production since he has the lead in bases without factoring in defense or base running beyond steals.
 
 
Not all bases are equal as you point out 20 HRs is a lot to make up. But total bases they are pretty damn close.

Bullshit. How long have you been watching baseball? Do you turn the channel when the Angels aren't batting?

I don't understand. How can Trout be a better overall player, but not be more valuable? That doesn't make sense to me.

Blanton in 2014: 3.20 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 185/35 K/BB
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Pitching for the Rays.

Building a new stadium in the parking lot would be ideal.

The location couldn't be better as far as access.  I hope they never move.  Anaheim is cool!

So Mike Trout is less valuable because Callaspo wasn't as good as Austin Jackson?
 
Damn that Callaspo and his costing Trout the MVP!
 
Also wouldn't this make Felix Hernandez or Max Scherzer MVP? If we had them instead of Blanton the Angels would be close to the playoffs. Scherzer has like 18 more wins than Blanton. You can't argue with that kind of production at the top of your rotation.

Of course he's putting up the same OPS as a below average 1B/really bad LF while Lowrie has been mostly a (defensively below average, granted) shortstop with some 2B mixed in. Lowrie has been the better player this year.
 
The Astros did also get Brad Peacock and Max Stassi in that trade though. Peacock has had a rough go of it in the majors, but was good in Triple-A after a rough 2012 in the minors. And Stassi was putting together his best pro season in AA before getting called up and hitting the concussion DL. So there might still be some value beyond Carter in that deal for the Astros.

Blanton in 2014: 3.20 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 185/35 K/BB
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Pitching for the Rays.

Nothing worse than the Debbie Downers that think everyone and the team will suck. Props on the thread, I hope it comes through.

Takes me back to the whole Dipoto walk the walk bit. For a SABR guy, he sure didnt take advantage of what was likely Trumbo's peak value after his performance this past season. He had to have saw Trumbo's lack of plate discipline concerning for future performance. This is what separates Beane from these pretenders.

Blanton in 2014: 3.20 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 185/35 K/BB
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Pitching for the Rays.

We'll probably trade the two best players out of the four. 

For starters, lots of new housing (condos and flats) coupled with monetary incentives from the city to move to the area.
And there are plenty of single family homes within the city as well.
Property values have increased 10-15% in the past year, and are projected to increase by a similar amount within the next year as well.
I don't know how this compares to sureounding cities, but it's encouraging.
One thing that needs to improve, and I don't know how you do it, is the quality of schools (especially elementary schools). There has been continued funding in support of maintaining our police and other public service departments, and encouraging rhetoric on reducing gangs and improving piblic safety in public parks. Maybe that's a start?

You seem to be confusing stupidity with just not being that good.  That's kinda dumb.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/9/4/4694288/minor-league-ball-gameday-september-4
 
From Sickels:
 
"
***One player on my research list is Los Angeles Angels outfield prospect Zach Borenstein, who had a really good 2013 season for High-A Lake Elsinore, hitting .337/.403/.631 and leading the California League with 28 homers. He finished the season with three homers in his last three games, including this shot on Monday.
 
 
He was a 23rd round pick in 2011 out of Eastern Illinois University. It is generally wise to be suspicious about California League breakouts and surge performances, but I'm going to find out more about him. The Angels need all the prospects they can get."

Ya, his 2013 was utterly underwhelming. It basically addressed none of the issues in Cron's game, and it wasn't even a year of more of the same from 2012 to get excited about either.
 
I feel like there's a pretty sound argument to drop Cron out of the organization's top 10 prospects at this point.
 
Guys I would probably rank ahead of him in no particular order:
The Brothers Green(assuming Grant still qualifies at the end of the year, which I think so?): Hunter and Grant
Lindsey
Borenstein
Sappington
Yarbrough
Grichuk
Rondon
Morin(and I say this as someone who's usually a little more hesitant with RP prospects, but Morin has just been SO DAMN GOOD)
Despite a worse year, I would still have Cowart here(although lower than this time last year obviously) over Cron. Still has age and an ability to actually play a position in his favor there.
Cases could be made for Alvarez, Stamets, etc. as well.

I think a move to DTLA would be foolish. In fact any move too far away would be foolish.
 
LA already has the Dodgers, no matter how hard Art tries the Angels will always be second fiddle in that town, especially if they move there.
 
The Angels have carved out their base in Anaheim and south Orange County. Are the wealthy season ticket holders from the area going to drive that far north? Is the fan base in this area really going to support the team at the same rate if there is an extra hour travel distance involved? Are people in LA who currently don't support the Dodgers really going to start supporting the Angels?