Wisconsin27

I like this thinking.  We need to use our one competitive advantage (money) to fill holes.  Darvish likely wouldn’t cost us any of our young core if we take all the money.  He is as likely as the discussed rentals to put up solid numbers  
This move would make it more palatable to trade Sandoval. I agree with @Inside Pitch that trading Sandoval for a rental is not a good use of his value. Send him to Baltimore instead for one of their young position players and buy the pitching on the open market.  Going back to our Blake Snell discussion, I would rather buy him then part with one of our few trade chips for a rental. I like Yamamoto, Bauer and Flaherty as FA targets  
I’m on record as a Perry fan, but if he moves Neto/o Hoppe/Schanuel/Silseth for any of the rentals, my opinion is going to change real quick. 

I'm in the minority for sure, but I have no interest in signing a player to a 500 million dollar deal.  We've been, and continue to be, down the road of having a few high-priced star position players that hinder our ability to complete a roster (read: resources towards high-end SP and BP).  I'm exhausted with the approach.

I think you stumbled onto the wrong site. You need to take that left turn at Albuquerque for Dodgerswin. 

No interest whatsoever in Yellich.  The bill will come due and we'll have to watch and suffer.  When will we learn these long-term contracts given to 33+ year old position players rarely, if ever, work out?  I'm exhausted with this approach.

I'm in the minority for sure, but I have no interest in signing a player to a 500 million dollar deal.  We've been, and continue to be, down the road of having a few high-priced star position players that hinder our ability to complete a roster (read: resources towards high-end SP and BP).  I'm exhausted with the approach.

No interest whatsoever in Yellich.  The bill will come due and we'll have to watch and suffer.  When will we learn these long-term contracts given to 33+ year old position players rarely, if ever, work out?  I'm exhausted with this approach.

I'm in the minority for sure, but I have no interest in signing a player to a 500 million dollar deal.  We've been, and continue to be, down the road of having a few high-priced star position players that hinder our ability to complete a roster (read: resources towards high-end SP and BP).  I'm exhausted with the approach.

I'm in the minority for sure, but I have no interest in signing a player to a 500 million dollar deal.  We've been, and continue to be, down the road of having a few high-priced star position players that hinder our ability to complete a roster (read: resources towards high-end SP and BP).  I'm exhausted with the approach.

First, defensive metrics are the murkiest of all stats.  BB-Reference's version of WAR focuses on DRS, FGs on UZR they are pretty similar, but DRS throws in subjective analysis using stringers to determine the difficulty by employing Baseball Info's Solutions, "Good Fielding Plays/Defensive Misplays (GFP/DME) system", it does this to try to be more comprehensive but in doing so it can cause some double dipping which they then employ yet another methodology to try to factor that out.  It's there where the differences (however slight) make for "fuzzy" results and what many see as bWAR overrating a player's actual defensive production. 
Offensively they grade around OPS+ whereas fWAR uses wRC+ which is built on wOBA and if I have to explain to you why that makes one stat better than the other then there are multiple discussions that need to be had before even starting on the differences in bWAR and fWAR.  wOBA is built around the proven reality that getting on base (not making an out) is the biggest factor to scoring runs while OPS is treating OBP and SLG equally.
fWAR had Moniak as a 1.5 player.  It seems pretty clear that the version properly adjusting for the importance of not making outs is giving you a better idea of how well Moniak performed.  
Defensively it's back to the slight difference and added components.  DRS uses rPM (runs minus plus saved) to rate the player against the league average -- UZR uses RngR (range above runs average) to try to do the same thing -- both of these stats get their data from the same source (BIS), and RanR like rPM gives Moniak a positive score so it comes down to how much you really want to buy into subjective human analysis vs math.  
I don't know of a single person who prefers bWAR to fWAR.
And yet we see so few do that.
Total number of OFers in all of MLB to post 2-3 WAR seasons among qualifiers 
2018 - 41, 
2019 - 36 
2021 - 32
2022 - 30
2023 - 34
Here are the actual names per year if you want to try to find the "plenty of guys" taken off the scrapheap who managed a 2-3 WAR season.
2018 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&pos=of&team=0&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2018&season=2018&pagenum=1
2019 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&pos=of&team=0&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2019&season=2019&pagenum=2
2021 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&pos=of&team=0&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2019&season=2019&pagenum=2
2022 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&pos=of&team=0&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2022&season=2022
2023 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&pos=of&team=0&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=2023&season=2023&pagenum=2
More importantly, here are all the Angels OFers to produce a 2.0 fWAR season since 2012 when Trout came up
Trout (every year). 
Hunter (2012)
Trumbo (2012)
Calhoun (2014, 2015, 2016, 2019)
Goodwin (2019)
Upton (2016, 2017)
Ward (2022)
12 seasons, 36 starting spots, another 1-2 back up spots, so anywhere between 36-60 spots and it's happened exactly once with Brian Goodwin.

I don't have any interest in discussing whether or not Yelich at 125 mil from age 33-37 (LOL), would be worth doing.  But let's not downplay just how valuable and yes RARE a legit 2 fWAR player is.  The Trout era Angels will likely be a case study on just how valuable and important a team full of 2 WAR players is .vs the eggs in one (or two) baskets approach the Angels have followed.
Sorry for the long post full of abbreviations and information very few of you likely have any interest in but out of respect for all parties involved I figured I'd do it this way than just say BULLSHIT! and dropping some snark... (like always)
Thank you and may God bless the Angels during these winter meetings.
"Hallelujah, Holy Shit! -- Where's the Tylenol!" 

If this is the case, it's time to let Ohtani go. I would rather spend $200 million on Yamamoto and spread the rest of the savings on the bullpen and other needs than spend $400-$500 million on Ohtani.
It's a math problem. The Angels have multiple holes that will require expenditures to fix. Ohtani will not fill all of those holes. 

Burnes is for 1 year. Wait till he becomes a FA then sign him. Angels do not have a lot of assets to trade. I'm for patience on any big spending this off season. It would be 5 years of Yellich going into mid 30's soon. 

I respect your contributions, totprods, but just can't agree with this.  No organization came overcome those obstacles long-term regardless of a short-term plan (of which, I agree with you on).  Winning organizations don't have meddling owners reluctant to spend on the farm or analytics, and fire people who don't perform under their "keep the revenue streams going" approach.  None, in any sport.
The idea we can properly evaluate any GM knowing the parameters our owner puts in front of them is almost comical.  As fans, we just clamor so much for the next season that I sometimes think we lose perspective of the big picture (forrest from the trees, so to speak).
 

I respect your contributions, totprods, but just can't agree with this.  No organization came overcome those obstacles long-term regardless of a short-term plan (of which, I agree with you on).  Winning organizations don't have meddling owners reluctant to spend on the farm or analytics, and fire people who don't perform under their "keep the revenue streams going" approach.  None, in any sport.
The idea we can properly evaluate any GM knowing the parameters our owner puts in front of them is almost comical.  As fans, we just clamor so much for the next season that I sometimes think we lose perspective of the big picture (forrest from the trees, so to speak).
 

I don’t disagree with this, generally. I might have benefitted from wording my original reply better…I don’t disagree that Arte isn’t an obstacle to their success, and that as head honcho he does take blame regardless of any GM, or that the aspects in which he does ‘meddle’ or skimp affect the team’s outlook or the GM’s ability…but I was trying to get out ahead of that to keep it from being simply another thread that focused on just Arte-bashing because it’s tiresome.
This past offseason was a deviation from year’s prior. Arte increased payroll by a solid amount. He let a GM talk him out of a Dipoto big splash in Turner and into a number of investments that were not the Eppler one-year specials a la Cahill or Harvey. The Angels distributed their money around in several moves for once - Anderson, Urshela, Renfroe, Drury, Estevez - that were largely approved of by fan and critic. They didn’t all work out but it was a noted difference from years prior. And perhaps all credit should go to Perry, but the ‘farm’ has quickly produced MLBers from amateur scouting. Maybe that is in part a result of Perry purely, or perhaps the Angels have allocated some resources or scouting that is paying off. 
So while I have no doubt that Arte’s been a significant barrier in many ways, I also don’t think that means it *has* to continue that way. Last winter proved there can be some shift in their approach. Perhaps Ohtani walking furthers that, or the success of the young core. Perhaps a combo of those things and trusting Perry’s vision could allow Arte to step back or change a few of his negative habits. Do I expect that to happen overnight? No. A 180° shift? No. Comprehensive change? No. But he’s capable of change and we may be seeing that these last 12 months, which was my motivation in trying to steer this thread away from focusing on Arte and instead focusing on an organic approach Perry could take that could help Arte view a holistic change in how they do things for a year, provided it’s yielding results this time next year.

I respect your contributions, totprods, but just can't agree with this.  No organization came overcome those obstacles long-term regardless of a short-term plan (of which, I agree with you on).  Winning organizations don't have meddling owners reluctant to spend on the farm or analytics, and fire people who don't perform under their "keep the revenue streams going" approach.  None, in any sport.
The idea we can properly evaluate any GM knowing the parameters our owner puts in front of them is almost comical.  As fans, we just clamor so much for the next season that I sometimes think we lose perspective of the big picture (forrest from the trees, so to speak).
 

The Dipoto farms were beyond bad. If they could’ve been ranked like 50th out of 30 they would have. Some of those top prospects lists from the middle of his tenure are abysmal. 
Billy got the Halos most of their rotation; Sandoval, Canning, Detmers, plus Kyle Bradish, Rengifo, Adell, Marsh (who got us O’Hoppe), Stassi, then other guys who’ve cracked the majors like Warren, Wantz, Mattson, CRod, Criswell, Paris, Adams, Daniel, Soto, Kochanowicz, Caceres. He had several misses, and a lot of those guys have still yet to pan out, but that is a pretty solid success rate for a GM that had to both rebuild a farm and keep attempting to build a contender, and a critically valuable portion of this team still today. And what he was able to squeeze out of guys like JC Ramirez, Felix Pena, Parker Bridwell, Blake Parker, Taylor Cole and Hansel Robles, plus Jefry Marte, Tommy LaStella and Brian Goodwin, if only for even just a year of success out of each. All of those guys had at least one season for the Angels that was objectively solid if not good before they also became hurt or ineffective. It was an impressive track record of low-key transaction success.
It was still a bottom ten farm at best in that time, but the hole he had to dig out of capped what he could have done, not to mention a shortened 2020 draft. And landing Ohtani was still a master stroke. 
Dude could not get anything done via free agency though. Miss after miss. 

I respect your contributions, totprods, but just can't agree with this.  No organization came overcome those obstacles long-term regardless of a short-term plan (of which, I agree with you on).  Winning organizations don't have meddling owners reluctant to spend on the farm or analytics, and fire people who don't perform under their "keep the revenue streams going" approach.  None, in any sport.
The idea we can properly evaluate any GM knowing the parameters our owner puts in front of them is almost comical.  As fans, we just clamor so much for the next season that I sometimes think we lose perspective of the big picture (forrest from the trees, so to speak).
 

Honestly, Billy Eppler was the best GM this team has had since Stoneman. The results weren't there at the top level but the manner in which he unfu**ed everything Dipoto did, with an owner interfering where he shouldn't, was nothing short of spectacular. 
Perry, he drafts well. So good that the top prospect lists won't recognize it because the guys he keeps picking are major leaguers before they have a chance to build up that Adell type of hype. As far as being a GM, I'm not impressed. The jury's still out though. 
Like if we could have Perry as a scouting director, running the drafts and hiring internal personnel, while having Billy in charge of the minor league system and contract negotiations, we'd be good to go. 

Open to any deal that makes the team better this year, so long as it makes the team next year better as well. Just don't want to lock up payroll on someone like Snell or Bellinger when I don't see either being worth the risk, not for a team with this many needs. 
In essence, if I were GM and treating this year as a transitional year, I would move Drury and Estevez simply because both aren't likely to impact the 2025 team, which is where I'm focusing (and beyond). I'd deal both this winter while they have the most value.
And I would have no problem replacing both via free agency this year as well, signing guys to 2-yr deals so we do have that talent in '25. 
For instance, flipping Drury then signing Candelario to replace him in '24 and be in the fold for '25, and signing someone like Phil Maton to be the closer to replace Estevez and have next year's closer role locked up too. Or Matsui.

Don’t think you can have an honest discussion about the performance of the GMs without acknowledging that they both have no say in the direction of the team (must compete every year regardless if it’s the best interest of the franchise), and simultaneously aren’t permitted to exceed the luxury tax (essentially giving them a hard cap).  What any of Reagins, Dipoto, Eppler, or Minasian might have done if given full control over baseball ops could be completely different than the results we’re debating.  As far as your assessment of how they performed within those confines, I for the most part agree with you

Who do you think it is that mandates this?

I agree with most of this save money for next year. Make small signings this year to fill out roster and give young players a chance to develop more. 

I'd do very little. No big contracts, just a few minor signings to fill up the roster. Re-invest the money into the farm system. Tend the garden for a few years, see what grows.
 

Agree on not really caring to see Ohtani back next year, or Trout for that matter.  Moving on from both is perfectly fine with me and has been for a few years now.  Would much prefer a full on fire sale rebuild than the way Arte has forced the team to operate for the last 10 years

Listen, you may think that's the answer for some who don't agree with your posts, but while this is an open community for Angels fans to share their opinions, I have to uphold the standard of this website whereby we take pride in intelligent conversation here.
Your posts are chipping away at those standards and taking away from the flow of good conversations here. 
I think you'd be better suited to comment on some Halos Nation Facebook page's posts and not here.
I mean no disrespect here, but I'm going to need you to clean it up or we'll have to find a new home for you sir. 
Thank you..