Torridd

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

If they lose tomorrow it’s over and then sell everyone who won’t extend. If they win tomorrow they are 4 games out and decide if you want to continue to push all in. 

It's too early for it to be over.

24 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

...the season, and perhaps near-term future of the franchise, hangs in the balance.

Three days ago, the Angels had gone 8-1 to go 54-49 and 3 games out of the third wildcard spot. They decided to keep Ohtani, be buyers and traded two of their top ten prospects for two rental pitchers. They proceeded to lose the next two games and are now 54-51 and 4.5 games back, possibly 5 if the Astros beat the Rays.

Yes, it is just two games but it is borderline disastrous. Not only the season but the near-future of the franchise is at stake. By keeping Ohtani and trading away two of their better prospects, they're banking on not only making the playoffs this year, but hopefully retaining Ohtani and being a perennial contender next year and beyond.

If they fall behind and miss the postseason, not only are they likely to lose Ohtani, but they also lost two of their better prospects. Meaning, by making this choice they went all-in on a path that pretty much requires Ohtani to be part of it to have a chance of being successful. They've already hurt their chances at a successful rebuild by trading Quero and Bush, and if they want to be a legit contender over the next few years, they need their best player.

In other words, it is possible that they lose Ohtani, Quero and Bush for...nothing. 

The situation will become truly dire if they lose the next two games and are at 54-53 on the eve of the trade deadline. While i don't think Perry will panic and trade Ohtani for the first decent offer, the temptation will probably be there to do so. But...they'll be (even more of) the laughingstock of major league baseball. In order to make that a valid approach, they'd have to trade everyone else as well - including--and perhaps especially--Giolito and Lopez.

I don't think they'll do that. I mean, maybe if they lose both games and the Astros, Red Sox, Yankees and Mariners all win two. They'd be 7 games back, with everyone else at least 2 games ahead of them. But even then, I think they'll buckle down and hope for the best, regardless of the next two games. But they've got to get back on course and not simply win more games than they lose, but probably win about twice as many as they lose.

And, of course, this is worsened by the probable loss of Ward for an extended period of time. 

As I said in another thread a few days ago, losing Ohtani opens up the possibility of a much-needed franchise overhaul. But...I think they already signaled that they don't plan on doing that by trading away Quero and Bush. Who knows, maybe Ohtani has a secret handshake promise with Arte, but they've gone down a path that requires him staying. If he leaves, they probably won't rebuild and we'll be left with a rather depressing state of affairs: losing their best player and not rebuilding, with a much weakened cast. Meaning, more of the same of the last decade, but even worse. The Dark Age would be extended by another few years, at least.

But there's still 57 games to be played. 5 games back isn't impossible, but with three teams ahead of them the road won't be easy and they're even more on the outside looking in than they were a couple days ago. Things will look a bit brighter if the Ward injury ends up looking worse than it was, but that seems unlikely.

Angels baseball, folks.

The team is showing heart but these injuries can really demoralize you. 

1 hour ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

He Velazquez, should worry more about hitting with runners in scoring position... Or, making a play on a double play grounder...

LOL! I wonder if he just wants more playing time.

53 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Have at it.

What's normal? This can't happen every year.

34 minutes ago, stormngt said:

If I am Arte and the clear and the HR leader is due up in the 9th representing the going run and he is pulled "for calves cramping" i am firing everybody. 

You do not take him out in those circumstances just for cramping.

Have you had cramps? Would you like to try to hit a baseball in that condition?

26 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Get win on Saturday only 1 game baseball a grind. 

They were in the game. Giolito gave a good effort. Gausman pitched very well.

48 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

At this rate I'm gonna need Perry to just acquire ANY SS simply to remove Velazquez from the roster

Management hasn't figured it out yet. It's not all the injuries that's bringing us down but that Squid is in the lineup. 

On 7/21/2023 at 2:12 PM, totdprods said:

I think for the first point, it could go two ways; a collapse would be easiest for the Angels path, sure, but even if all AL East teams just sort of grind each other out in a war of attrition, with no one or two teams clearly emerging and beating the rest regularly, it could keep equalize them all back to within reach. The Angels though will still need to take care of business and win quite a bit to overcome, but, if all those teams are splitting series the rest of the way between them, the # of wins needed might not be so dire. 

It’s really hard seeing NYY, Seattle, or Cleveland getting hot right now. Bieber is injured, almost everyone in NY is injured, Kelenic just broke his foot, both Seattle and Cleveland have perpetually been stuck at .500 - the Angels are kinda in the same boat, but seem to be positioned better to move up faster than those teams - at least right now. I also think Seattle and maybe one of NYY/BOS, perhaps even Cleveland (Civale?) will need to make a decision to sell before they get a chance to get hot.

Completely agree on the third point. All moot if they don’t win. I do think that the “MUST win 90+” belief isn’t necessarily foregone conclusion yet, and I don’t think they’ll need to jump all these teams, because mathematically the AL East is going to eventually bump a couple out regardless of what the Angels are doing, given how many head-to-heads there are over there still. 

What worries me most are the Angels’ series against the somewhat middling winning teams - the Phillies, Giants, Reds, Twins - we’ve played some very good teams pretty well this year, and even done well against the bad teams, but these in-betweeners tend to catch them off guard (Miami, Boston, Arizona) and beat the hell out of them. If the Angels can beat up on the bad teams, land around .700+ ball against those, hold their own against the few tough series (even .500ish) they have left, and then come ahead against the in-betweeners (.600ish), I think that firmly puts them in the mix by end of year - provided the AL East continues to be tough on each other.

I heard that Judge is very close to returning - perhaps in a few days.

On 7/21/2023 at 1:24 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Well, at least it should be interesting. They have a chance, so baseball is still meaningful, but they need three things to come true:

• One of the better wildcard teams - the Astros, Rays, Orioles, or Blue Jays - to collapse; and
• None of the lesser teams - Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners, Indians/Twins - to get hot; and
• They have to play really, really well, with no let up

Just one or even two of those would make it more possible, but all three? Hard to see it. But I'll still be hoping.

I don't think those top teams have to collapse for the Angels to get to the playoffs.

On 7/21/2023 at 1:18 PM, Revad said:

Thinking of it this way, and especially your point about the AL East beating up on each other, I’m more optimistic.

The Angels control their own destiny. There are so many games left to play and we play so many teams in the playoff hunt. I like their hunger right now. You can feel it. They need to have that Scioscia mentality of focusing on each game. Then take the series. The road trip has started well. They just have to keep their feet on the gas.

47 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Pitchers figured him out. It happens all the time.

I don't think so. I think this is an internal issue. I hope he figures it out.

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

That's it for Walsh?!

What happened to him? Just suddenly lost the ability to hit? 

Very sad. I hope he comes back and reinvigorates his career.

Great interview!

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think we will see a Rengifo trade and it wouldn’t suprise me if they get a pen arm for him.  

I wouldn't like that unless it's a really good arm. Rengifo has his faults but he's multitalented.

9 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I like it. 

Go big or go home. I also like that Perry is striking fast before he and other teams get into a bidding war on the day of the deadline. 

Excellent point Chuck. It was a quick move. It had to hurt a bit but Perry dove in there quickly. Now Silseth can go to the bullpen.

9 hours ago, mmc said:

This is what I was talking about. Go all in or go home. Forget about Lorenzen as the big haul.

19 minutes ago, HaloBronco said:

The way I see it, they're fine offensively (with pieces coming back Trout, Drury, O'Hoppe. Rendon will be coming back for probably 2 games before he goes back on the IL). 

It's the pitching side that needs the help specifically the backend of bullpen. Sure another dependable starter would be great too but watching and listening to these games it's when they go to the 

Bullpen that it starts to feel like a white knuckle experience to me (While driving along the side of cliff). 

I agree that pitching is the priority although I wouldn't mind a catching upgrade.

1 hour ago, HBAngel13 said:

It’s not sexy, but I wouldn’t hate a Lorenzen reunion. He would bolster the rotation and potentially be a valuable pen piece in a playoff series since starters don’t seem to go deep these days. 

I just don't think he makes much difference. If they're going to buy, then make the team significantly better.

2 hours ago, Duren, Duren said:

Not good. With no off days it puts a strain on the pitching staff and more wear and tear on the players. The team can't afford to rest key players when seeking a sweep. Hopefully they get a big lead in the first game, pull some players and have them fresher for game two. 

Regardless, they go into Toronto and have to play the next day. But maybe the Jay's will be affected by their long travel and time zone adjustments.

Hopefully, today is some semblance of a rest day.

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

 

Rats! It's hard enough to sweep, much less on the road. Now we have to contend with a doubleheader. If nothing else, we need the opener.

On 7/21/2023 at 1:27 AM, Chuckster70 said:

 

Great breakdown. Thanks, Chuck. Luck or not? I hope he keeps it up because we need him desperately.

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Can Rengifo play SS, because I'd rather that Stefanic play over Squid?

Great show guys! Loved it!!

On 7/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, Chuckster70 said:

After a break for the All Star Game, the boys are back for Episode 13.  Join Victor Rojas, Chuck Richter and Geoff Stoddart as they discuss the Angels’ performance against the Astros and Yankees.  Then, the topic on everyone’s mind …  what will the team do with Shohei Ohtani?  If a big move is done, which teams might make the most sense to provide the haul the Angels would need to let him go?  Enjoy the baseball talk and product placements! 

 

No way should Ohtani be sent to the Rangers. They're just too good right now. I'm not crazy of him going to any AL West club.

13 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Who are you going to trade to get these controllable players and still keep Ohtani? Renfroe, Moore others are FA end of year. Do you trade them and keep Ohtani? Does that make any sense at all. What is your plan at deadline to get these players who are going to help now and in future? I've said it's time to build around young players halos have now. Ohtani needs to go because he is gone after this season.

One person that comes to mind is Ward. I don't how people will feel about that. Would you trade Ward, Walsh and some others for Stroman? Is that too little?