Dtwncbad

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok give me a realistic option, don't just complain about it.  You can't create one out of mid air.  So you can draft and develop one, which they tried with Richards but he can't stay healthy.  You can trade for one, like my Chris Sale comment you were responding too or you can sign one.  So who and how?  

Who and how is a fair question.  Let me ask you a number of fair questions.

Were the Angels foolish to (looks to me like) be overly optimistic on being able to count on Richards?

How about what seemed like a plan that had Shoemaker beimg better than he is?

How do you feel about using tradable pieces to acquire a Ricky Nolasco instead of patience or creativity to get a better player?

I'm frustrated thus team had too many potential #4 starters that never had a chance in the real world of being the answer.

It's a fair frustration.

Just now, Stradling said:

Ok give me a realistic option, don't just complain about it.  You can't create one out of mid air.  So you can draft and develop one, which they tried with Richards but he can't stay healthy.  You can trade for one, like my Chris Sale comment you were responding too or you can sign one.  So who and how?  

Show me a roster recently where they were entering a season with two guys good enough to call top of the rotation guys.

Respectfully, citing rosters with Weaver makes my point.  Its been  LONG time since Weaver was ace matetial.

Or should we be feeling good since at one time we had Ryan and Tanana?

Today matters.

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

He has had one bad outing this season that has skewed his stats. Outside of that he has given up a total of 8 runs over the other 4 games. Maybe you are not seeing the forest from the one tree.

Or maybe you're just in a mood. Nolasco isn't an ace but he was never traded for to be an ace, it was a swap for Santiago which also bought Alex Meyer. As a mid rotation guy he is fine.

Fair.  I am in a mood so I plead guilty.  I am tired of Angel rosters that never seem to focus on frontline starting pitching.  I have never understood a pursuit for "depth" (where you have like 7 guys you could r7n out there all equal to #3 or worse ability) versus being hellbent on having two aces and build around that.

So when I watch this current parade of bodies I would never even want to sniff the mound in a poatseason series, I am "down on the team" and "in a mood".

I'm 100% guilty of that.

I'm talking about at the deadline, not now.  I'm just saying that it is painfully obvious TODAY that this roster isn't good enough to contend and I don't want to pretend otherwise.  That's all.

Either you get the point or you don't.  It's a significant point.  The Angels and Mike Scioscia lame comments on Nolasco going into the season were basically insulting to those living in reality.  It's Ricky Nolasco.  Are you or are you not going to keep eating meatloaf they try to sell you as prime steak?

Too early to tell?  Not sure Yet?

I'm dumbfounded.  This team has zero chance of contending this year.  Zero.  They are not good enough.  The top half of the rotation is barely equal to the bottom half of other teams rotations.  That cannot be ignored.

This team has got to live in reality and move some bodies to continue the project of building from within.

Any other move at the deadline, or lack of moves, would be a mistake.

Hey this Ricky Nolasco, the guy the Angels have promoted as the anchor of the staff, with his 4.68 era very much reminds me of a guy I remember named Ricky Nolasco.

Go figure.  Shocker.

This would be a terrible time to try to sell him on being an Angel for life.

Looks like Moreno messed up Hamilton's knee again.

We all know this season is now over. We know it.  We also understand they can't tear it down in April.  But if they don't have the guts to make some headline making trades before the deadline, we'll, I am going to be pissed.  And as fan in my fifties now, I will try my best to not let sports actually make me angry so the smarter reaction will be to just ignore the team entirely and check back in when the Winter Meetings come around.

There is no excuse to sit on a mediocre roster and start 2018 just like 2017.

Start making phone calls Billy.

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

Say what you want about Jeter, but 3465 hits gets you in the Hall. Period.

Yes.  I think you help make my point.  3465 is a pre-punched ricket.  To me it seems like he has been treated like he was the best player in the game for a generation, and he wasn't even the best shortstop.  There is an argument he wasn't in the top five SS over the last 25 yrs.  ARod, Ripken, Ozzie, Yount,  then take your pick among Trammell, Larkin and Jeter for the fifth spot.

Is he treated like the fifth best player at his position in a generation?

Jeters lifetime WAR is 71.8.  Pretty much even with Bobby Grich at 70.9.

Further, what if he wins 25 games and also saves 40, and also hits 15 pinch hit homers?

I personally find Jeter to be an entirely over rated player who has always been smugly drunk on his own "greatness" and clearly wants to stay on the stage.  Whatever.  I am rooting for him to fail at buying the team OR get the team and have them absolutely sick.

OVER RATED.  Hall of Fame? yes.  Top tier all time player?  Nope.  I'll call him third tier, just good enough to get into HOF.  So much fawning and hype. . . 

Braun can hit but this team right now needs a top tier starter far more than it needs a 34 yr old OF that hits 25 homers.  Any resources available to get Braun should be reserved to be used to get a 200 inning #2 type starter.

Anybody else not able to ignore that while Nolasco did not have a bad outing, was he really the best opening day pitcher for the team?

Hey I like that Nolasco seems to be a bit better than he was before, but I am still constantly intellectually reminded that, um, it's Ricky Nolasco.

Opening day starter Ricky Nolasco?

Hard drive up the middle.

Slid in safe.

Everyone erupted.

In all seriousness the only thing that does make some sense is to split CA into two states.  So Cal would be basically the conservative leaning OC and SD and Imperial Valley.  The rest would be NorCal.

The new SoCal would be way smaller than NorCal but it would be a pretty "normal" size for a state compared to tons of other states.

180 innings of Shoemaker smoke and mirrors.

Skaggs and Richards dualing to be team ace.

Bedrosian a beast closer.

Maybin 3 war.

Simmons proves he isn't a glove only player once and for all.

Cron has his career year and is someone pitchers actually think about.

Trout, Calhoun and Pujols are Trout, Calhoun and Pujols.

55 electoral votes for Dems lost.

2 Senate seats for Dems lost.

Sounds fine to me.

I have also mentioned this on the angel board. . .this was the first game I ever left early.  I was 19 with a new fantastic girlfriend and she had ideas for the evening that seemed to be more interesting than sitting through a 9th that far behind.  I heard the 9th on the radio.  It was a good night but wish I had waited.

18 hours ago, ettin said:

Well "the Book" indicates that the #2 spot should be your best hitter. The definition of your best hitter is open to a bit of interpretation: Does it mean your best wRC+ guy (Trout) or does it mean your best bat manipulator/contact guy (which is probably Trout too but Escobar fits that mold well)? The Book indicates that the #3 position does not have a lot of run producing opportunities which means putting Trout there may not be the best choice so someone like Yunel might actually be a better argument.

All that being said I believe that having someone like Maybin, Valbuena, or even Revere in leadoff with Escobar in the 2-slot and then Trout behind him represents the best possible run producing outcomes for Mike. Everything relies on excellent on-base ability if Mike is hitting 3rd so the two guys in front of him need to be high OBP guys.

If you buy into the idea that the #3 position is less productive from a run production perspective then putting Yunel there may be an attractive option. I personally am not on board with it as I prefer him at #2 but if I saw him at #3 I'd understand it to a degree.

I appreciate your explanation.  My point was really more along the lines of. . .if your team has Escobar batting 3rd, your offensive lineup probably sucks.

1977 was the beginning for me.

14 minutes ago, ettin said:

This ^^^^

Escobar has a unique skill set in the batter's box. He makes a lot of contact and hits a lot of singles and doubles plus he's able to take a walk as others said above.

I have been so busy I haven't released my next to last Primer article which is about roster construction. In that article I talk about Yunel's value and he would make an ideal #2 or #3 hitter with our current mix of hitters. Of course you could probably replicate some of that skill set with other hitters so if the Angels have to trade or even jettison Escobar to get their best lineup then they have to do what they have to do.

Cron's surge here in ST is making this a developing situation for the team to put the best 25 players on the field and in the end that, as IP said, is a very good problem to have. I don't envy the decisions that Scioscia and Eppler will have to make in the lineup and the bullpen soon.

You lost me Escobar being an ideal #3 hitter. . .