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Hundreds and hundreds of players in the minors.  Which names are the arms with they best chances of being #2 or better starters in the majors in the next 3 years?  Not mid rotation or back of the rotation depth, but someone you would gladly hand the ball to in a critical start deep in a postseason series.

Crickets.

Am I a bad fan for seeing that and being willing to openly talk about it?

15 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok so who should they have signed?  

Look I know why you ask that question, but being disciplined to stick to the specigic point I am making, I dont need to answer that question.

Is ownership and the front office accountable for the lack of high quality front line starting pitching or not?

Is it acceptable in professional sports for fans to SEE the problem and be frustrated?

This team wants to act like they are a premium franchise, so what comes with that is accountability.

I expect better.

2 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I don't think the Angels were counting on Richards as much they were hoping he was available, hence why Eppler stocked AAA with a bunch of SPs who had struggled with inconsistency/injury but still have potential for high-to-mid rotation success if they put it all together.  Guys like Banuelos, Scribner, Meyer, and Campos.  Are they guarantees?  No, but Eppler found some depth that is seriously lacking in the mid to high minors and provided less of a drop in talent that was evident from what was promoted the last couple of seasons..

As for Shoemaker, he's always given up the long ball when he's been off but when he's on he's dominant as evident by his by his ERA+, WHIP, K/9 and the fact that, prior to getting beaned in the head, he was pitching like a solid 3 starter.  He is who is, he's valuable, and his season total will fall in line eventually.

The Angels weren't getting much for Hector Santiago.  I know I wasn't a fan of the trade of at the time but I understand now what Eppler is trying to do so I don't have a huge problem with it.  Meyer has ace stuff but 5/AAA starter command...somewhere in there you will have a solid 2 starter or a dominant back-end BP piece.  Every GM in baseball has access to baseball_reference.com and can see what he was - a talented pitcher that will struggle to give you six innings and even out to be a 4 starter over the course of a season.  

Point is, every team is looking for cheap, talented pitching and so, in competing with 29 other teams, you are not going to get everyone you are seeking at the price you want.  

I don't disagree.  Its just that this organization is a premium franchise in a premium market.  I guess I just expect a better roster, and maybe its not any more complicated than that.

I dont really want to accept that the Angels are "fine" if I just compare them to teams with fewer resources and in inferior markets.

The answer to address better frontline pitching is draft better, develop better, and pursue the right free agents.

The reality is it is perfectly ok to sit here disappointed in the starting pitching without having a 20/20 hindsight plan or pretending to have a crystal ball.

I am doing nothing more than just holding the organization accountable for the mess on the mound.

Should they be accountable?

Should I expect them to be accountable going forward?

Is it OK to be frustrated if going into 2018 or 2019 the team doesnt have the arms?

How many years in a row is it OK to be soft at the top of the rotation before it is natural to bitch about it?

I loved the Heaney trade.  All my complaining might not be consuming me if he was out there dealing.

It's just gross frustration.  The one thing I can't stomach is a starting staff that is overmatched 4 out of 5 nights.

And that's what I see right now with not much evidence of it changing.

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok give me a realistic option, don't just complain about it.  You can't create one out of mid air.  So you can draft and develop one, which they tried with Richards but he can't stay healthy.  You can trade for one, like my Chris Sale comment you were responding too or you can sign one.  So who and how?  

Who and how is a fair question.  Let me ask you a number of fair questions.

Were the Angels foolish to (looks to me like) be overly optimistic on being able to count on Richards?

How about what seemed like a plan that had Shoemaker beimg better than he is?

How do you feel about using tradable pieces to acquire a Ricky Nolasco instead of patience or creativity to get a better player?

I'm frustrated thus team had too many potential #4 starters that never had a chance in the real world of being the answer.

It's a fair frustration.

Just now, Stradling said:

Ok give me a realistic option, don't just complain about it.  You can't create one out of mid air.  So you can draft and develop one, which they tried with Richards but he can't stay healthy.  You can trade for one, like my Chris Sale comment you were responding too or you can sign one.  So who and how?  

Show me a roster recently where they were entering a season with two guys good enough to call top of the rotation guys.

Respectfully, citing rosters with Weaver makes my point.  Its been  LONG time since Weaver was ace matetial.

Or should we be feeling good since at one time we had Ryan and Tanana?

Today matters.

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

He has had one bad outing this season that has skewed his stats. Outside of that he has given up a total of 8 runs over the other 4 games. Maybe you are not seeing the forest from the one tree.

Or maybe you're just in a mood. Nolasco isn't an ace but he was never traded for to be an ace, it was a swap for Santiago which also bought Alex Meyer. As a mid rotation guy he is fine.

Fair.  I am in a mood so I plead guilty.  I am tired of Angel rosters that never seem to focus on frontline starting pitching.  I have never understood a pursuit for "depth" (where you have like 7 guys you could r7n out there all equal to #3 or worse ability) versus being hellbent on having two aces and build around that.

So when I watch this current parade of bodies I would never even want to sniff the mound in a poatseason series, I am "down on the team" and "in a mood".

I'm 100% guilty of that.

I'm talking about at the deadline, not now.  I'm just saying that it is painfully obvious TODAY that this roster isn't good enough to contend and I don't want to pretend otherwise.  That's all.

Either you get the point or you don't.  It's a significant point.  The Angels and Mike Scioscia lame comments on Nolasco going into the season were basically insulting to those living in reality.  It's Ricky Nolasco.  Are you or are you not going to keep eating meatloaf they try to sell you as prime steak?

Too early to tell?  Not sure Yet?

I'm dumbfounded.  This team has zero chance of contending this year.  Zero.  They are not good enough.  The top half of the rotation is barely equal to the bottom half of other teams rotations.  That cannot be ignored.

This team has got to live in reality and move some bodies to continue the project of building from within.

Any other move at the deadline, or lack of moves, would be a mistake.

Hey this Ricky Nolasco, the guy the Angels have promoted as the anchor of the staff, with his 4.68 era very much reminds me of a guy I remember named Ricky Nolasco.

Go figure.  Shocker.

This would be a terrible time to try to sell him on being an Angel for life.

Looks like Moreno messed up Hamilton's knee again.

We all know this season is now over. We know it.  We also understand they can't tear it down in April.  But if they don't have the guts to make some headline making trades before the deadline, we'll, I am going to be pissed.  And as fan in my fifties now, I will try my best to not let sports actually make me angry so the smarter reaction will be to just ignore the team entirely and check back in when the Winter Meetings come around.

There is no excuse to sit on a mediocre roster and start 2018 just like 2017.

Start making phone calls Billy.

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

Say what you want about Jeter, but 3465 hits gets you in the Hall. Period.

Yes.  I think you help make my point.  3465 is a pre-punched ricket.  To me it seems like he has been treated like he was the best player in the game for a generation, and he wasn't even the best shortstop.  There is an argument he wasn't in the top five SS over the last 25 yrs.  ARod, Ripken, Ozzie, Yount,  then take your pick among Trammell, Larkin and Jeter for the fifth spot.

Is he treated like the fifth best player at his position in a generation?

Jeters lifetime WAR is 71.8.  Pretty much even with Bobby Grich at 70.9.

Further, what if he wins 25 games and also saves 40, and also hits 15 pinch hit homers?

I personally find Jeter to be an entirely over rated player who has always been smugly drunk on his own "greatness" and clearly wants to stay on the stage.  Whatever.  I am rooting for him to fail at buying the team OR get the team and have them absolutely sick.

OVER RATED.  Hall of Fame? yes.  Top tier all time player?  Nope.  I'll call him third tier, just good enough to get into HOF.  So much fawning and hype. . . 

Braun can hit but this team right now needs a top tier starter far more than it needs a 34 yr old OF that hits 25 homers.  Any resources available to get Braun should be reserved to be used to get a 200 inning #2 type starter.

Anybody else not able to ignore that while Nolasco did not have a bad outing, was he really the best opening day pitcher for the team?

Hey I like that Nolasco seems to be a bit better than he was before, but I am still constantly intellectually reminded that, um, it's Ricky Nolasco.

Opening day starter Ricky Nolasco?

Hard drive up the middle.

Slid in safe.

Everyone erupted.

In all seriousness the only thing that does make some sense is to split CA into two states.  So Cal would be basically the conservative leaning OC and SD and Imperial Valley.  The rest would be NorCal.

The new SoCal would be way smaller than NorCal but it would be a pretty "normal" size for a state compared to tons of other states.

180 innings of Shoemaker smoke and mirrors.

Skaggs and Richards dualing to be team ace.

Bedrosian a beast closer.

Maybin 3 war.

Simmons proves he isn't a glove only player once and for all.

Cron has his career year and is someone pitchers actually think about.

Trout, Calhoun and Pujols are Trout, Calhoun and Pujols.