Mark PT

Pitching aside, this lineup, when healthy, is among the best in baseball and very exciting to watch. Even with the injuries, it is still a good lineup to watch. As far as winning, baseball has and always will be a pitchers sport. It just sucks it took 10 years for this Angels team to figure that out.

Its funny you say this. This is what being an Angel fan is. Most years we hope the season isn't over before summer hits.

This is the manager manipulating the stats. He takes him out quickly and minimizes damage. Still cant put him in any tight situations.

I guess the only obstacle to your assessment is what are the possibility of improving the staff next year (open question). If its a good prospect, then I'd keep Cobb and Sandoval. Anything beyond this is fair game (my opinion). If there is no hope to improve much next year, then sell.

you win

stopping was your mistake.

Didnt they pick like 10 pitchers? Maybe this was the best available knowing who else they were targeting.

dont think he is a flash in the pan either. He does not often have a bad at-bat.

And the bat flip is second worldly.

What, no Bundy?

Would hate to see a sell. A couple good consistent arms has us competing for the WC easily.

So basically I was poor at explaining my position and you misunderstood my meaning. Fine. My ego comment referred that by quoting so many stats seemed going above and beyond the scope of reason to prove someone wrong, when all it would have taken was, " I disagree". I was not bothered by it, it just seemed that you were hell bent to prove a position and I was just conversing. I this was not your point then I apologize, but that's what it seemed like. As far as CR, I still think he has tremendous room for growth but yes learning a change was meant to mean control it (change/off-speed). That was my point.

Ya, I never heard of this before but it is understandable now. Thanks.

You truly are unreal. You criticized me. I just stated an opinion. Projection? really? I just said that He was unable to hit his spots with his pitches. You corrected me by showing he has rarely thrown his change up, which I acknowledged and redefined my position to say off-speed. This is not a defense mech but just a conversation. The stats you present still do not change my point because they cant. Piping a pitch does not prove he has control of his pitches. He misses his spots then gets too much of the zone and gets hurt. That is all I said

Thanks. That makes more sense

Its not really a criticism but more of an observation. Its one way of doing things that, in my opinion, may not always work. I think as long as a manager is consistent in how they approach in-game decisions then they are doing their job to the best of their ability. Plus the owner/GM can better evaluate what they want. When Dodger fan ripped D. Roberts 2 years ago for removing pitchers early in playoff games, I told them that this is his method and he's consistent. I just think that leaving a pitcher in sometimes to overcome might be more efficient, but that is just opinion.

What do you mean by grade pitches? Is that out of 100?

Brother I dont need to save face, but if it boosts your ego, fine. I clarified my points. But you still seemed to take issue with everything I said. Take a breather, its just baseball talk. If you proved me wrong about CR, cool. But I redefined my points to see if you could, which is good as I will learn something. But you being insulted by what I have said, which you obviously are, is a joke.

That's going the distance to try to prove someone wrong, was it that important? Look I realize that by change up, I should have said off-speed. Either way he lacks control of his pitches (and strike total out of total pitches thrown wont show you what I mean). He misses his spots. He tries to hit corners and misses. He is forced to come over the middle. HIs change was only thrown 3 times (per your research), if this is his best pitch, why is he only throwing it 3 times. Look, I really think this kid has tools and potential to be Ace-like but he cant control his pitches well enough currently. By learn one, that does not mean he cant throw it or make it move, it means he cant throw it effectively in the zone. With this in mind, now the "he's piping them" in light of he cant control it makes sense. I like the insight from Gubicza that you mentioned, and it is a testament to how good he can be. He has at least three "wipeout pitches" that I have seen but cant use them in too many occasions.

Oh I get it, that its not meant to be a strike but this also gets him into trouble when he falls behind guys. He then tends to come straight over the middle and gets hurt. He still has not been able to figure out how to effectively use his ability, cause he does have alot of it. If he consistently pitches in the zone, I think he will not be forced to the middle so often. HE has tremendous potential but has not reached it yet, hopefully he does.

So what possessed you to bring that up? No my day is ruined.

and yet he never uses it or shows any control while using it.

and this was my point. He tries to overpower everyone. And this also may illustrate his lack of control with his change up.

I think what you said is valid. Mauch did leave guys in too long. I think this is just manager skill, to know what your pitchers can do and what they cant. This is the problem or weakness that many managers have in today's game, they stick to a pattern and dont evaluate each situation and the personnel involved before making a decision. They stick to their matrix and forget about the human element.

but he cant control it, that is what I mean. He consistently falls behind every count then pipes one.