HBAngel13

If the Angels take the all-in approach for 2024 (which I don’t endorse), could you build a trade package headlined by Sandoval and Moniak for Soto? The trade simulator isn’t gospel, but it has that deal as an overpay for the Angels. Bring in Soto and sign Yamamoto and you have essentially replaced Ohtani’s 2023 performance and unclogged the DH spot. Plus you have the option to flip Soto for value at the deadline, or explore an extension. Most importantly you have spread the risk over two players. Assuming no Ohtani, you probably still have enough payroll space for an another mid-level move or two.

If the Mariners signed Snell, that would be a win-win. Mariners get saddled with a high-risk contract and it keeps him away from the Angels.

The biggest weakness of this team over the last decade is risk management. They have spent far too much money on free agent contracts with zero or negative return. If they had received just average performance from the mega-contracts we wouldn’t be in 9-yr playoff drought. I’m a Perry fan because he comes from the ATL brain trust and seems to value shorter term contracts for post-arbitration free agents that don’t handcuff the roster. Plus he takes responsibility for the misses, is quick to address areas of need, and is bold with his moves. Unfortunately he works for an owner that values names on the marquee over a healthy top-to-bottom organization. IMO the next decade of Angel baseball is in the balance this offseason. If the team commits $500m to Ohtani, our chances of returning to perennial contention will dim considerably. If Trout and Rendon were playing semi-full seasons and performing it would be different, but they are not. We simply can’t risk paying $110-120m a year for three guys when two of them can’t stay on the field and the third MAY end up being a leveled-up DH.

Anyone else fearful of another knee-jerk reaction by Moreno if Ohtani signs elsewhere? Similar circumstances in the past resulted in Vernon Wells and Rendon. I’m on record that the team would be better off allocating the Ohtani dollars elsewhere and spreading the risk, but not at the expense of a knee-jerk signing of Snell and Bellinger.

I agree they expect to compete. I just don’t agree they can get over the hump with the phantom payroll constraints and two additional mega-contracts. As @jsnpritchett said early in the thread, Snell plus Ohtani in 2024 basically puts you status quo for where we were last year. I know Snell was the NL Cy Young, but I don’t think he is a perennial TOR arm and he certainly isn’t a guy that’s going to consistently put up 180-200 IP.

If the Angels somehow signed Snell and Ohtani, you can reasonably expect the 2010’s all over again (minus 2014). No to Ohtani. No to Snell. Build a balanced team and maybe you compete in 2025 if the young guys develop well. At that point you can dip back into the deep end of free agency as Rendons commitment will be close to the end AND you will have a better answer on the youngsters. They are the key. Without major contributions from the young core, we will be in the same spin cycle of the last decade. Even if Arte goes to the luxury tax or a bit over, he isn’t going to be in Dodgers/Mets/Yankees/Red Sox territory. That’s what it’s going to take to fix this team in 2024. I’m not saying he “can’t”, I am saying he “won’t”.

Even though Rendon rolls off payroll in three years, Trout and Ohtani mega contracts will make it challenging to field a complete, balanced team without an about-face in how Arte views the luxury tax. Plus, Ohtani creates a lot of roster gymnastics surrounding the DH and a six-man rotation. It will be tough to see him go, but I think the Angels got his best years. We should be thankful for that and be shrewd with spreading around the FA dollars going forward. Personally I would rather invest in Yamamoto and sign a Soler/JD Martinez type to a short term deal to cushion the offensive loss. Angels could probably get Yamamoto and another #2-ish starter for the AAV Ohtani will command. As great as Ohtani is, I think we are possibly a better club now and in the future if we let him walk.

My main concern is that an older manager on a two yr deal, along with a GM in the last year of his deal and a departing 2-way superstar implies that we will be in neutral for the next couple years at least. Wash seems like a solid baseball guy so that’s cool, but this move makes the future murkier. As a fan I am craving a clear, long-term direction. A change of manager/GM is an opportunity to put a stake in the ground. I don’t think this hire accomplishes that. That said, I hope he does great.

I don’t see us contending despite what the team puts forth publicly, so I would have preferred letting an up and comer have a shot. I would have given the nod to Buck over Washington, but I doubt the results are materially different between the two.

Not super excited about this. Only two years though, both of which will likely be developmental years. Hopefully he can bring some structure and preparation Love to be surprised, but this feels like a neutral move.

Is there any reality where we could have some combination of Torii, Ersty and Percy all in the dugout? Unless Perry makes some serious ninja roster moves, I don’t see us seriously competing for another couple years, so I am all for letting Torii and/or Erstad cut their teeth as an MLB manager. I love the personality that both guys could bring to this club, especially for the young guys.

I would definitely be in favor of Theo joining the front office in any capacity

Unfortunately the true benefit of moving Trout is not what comes in return, but in getting out from under yrs 4-7 of his deal. It would be nice to get something back, but perhaps a volume deal of depth-type prospects would be best anyway considering the current state of the farm system. “Should” they look to move Mike, taking back someone like Schwarber is the right idea. If they do attempt a 2-3 year retool, they should take as much short term “bad” money back as possible to get some prospect value. It might take a three team deal to really maximize that. Dodgers really did this well for a couple years. I would like to see them make a concerted effort to have no dead money contracts outside of the last year of Rendon by 2026 I absolutely love Trout, but based on what we have seen the last few seasons, it’s a diminishing probability that he is still a difference maker come 2026. He just can’t stay on the field consistently enough. If he was willing to take a chunk of DH at bats maybe that would help? It might by a win/win for player and team if he got moved to Philly, but an “L” for Angel fans for sure. Hate to say it, but this organization needs to rip the bandaid off, so true healing can start. It will be tough for the team to bottom out with Trouts deal on the books.

One thing I hope Perry focuses on in the retooling is a reduction of the K’s. There is way too much swing and miss in this lineup. A player like Schanuel would be a huge step in balancing that out. For those who have got a good look at him defensively, is there any chance he could defend somewhere other than 1B? I thought I remember his college coach talking about potential for him to play 3B or even 2B. He would be extremely valuable as a 2B with his hitting profile. Brewers used Moustakas at 2B several years ago, but that may have been facilitated by the shift. I haven’t really seen him play the field so maybe this is a moot question…

As much as we would all love Stassi to be back and contributing, it’s inspiring to see him prioritize his family over career. My prayers are with him and his family whatever the situation is. Hopefully everything comes to the best possible conclusion in the months to come and we can welcome him back next year. Hang in there Max!

If we can’t win with Ohtani now, I am not sure we can win with him over the course of the next 2-3 years, especially if he isn’t contributing on the mound. I was for trading him last summer, but once they decided to keep him at this years deadline, I also supported going all in. They kinda backed themselves into a corner and had to. We knew it was a long shot, but the complete and immediate collapse thereafter was heartbreaking. I would not resign him at this point. I do like the young core of Schanuel, O’Hoppe and Neto as well as the pitchers like Silseth, Soriano, Bachman and Joyce. That’s clearly not enough to contend though. I support @totdprods and others ideas of cashing in the young guys with 2-4 years of service time and multiple years of control. Ward, Rengifo, Sandoval, Canning, etc. Target guys that are 0-1 yrs from being MLB contributors and try to match them with the youth core with an aim to contend in 2026. Maybe go the Braves route and try to lock those guys up to early extensions if they continue to develop well. 2026 is the last year of Rendons contract and if Ohtani is gone, there should be plenty of payroll ammo to flesh out any major holes. Use the payroll in the meantime to flesh out the roster with guys you can flip at the deadline and buy prospects by taking on bad 1-3 year contracts. As for Trout, if you can find someone to take his contract, I think you have to really look hard at it. At 32 he is still young enough where one of the free-wheeling teams would take a flier (Philly). As long as he is on the roster there is going to be constant pressure to win now and by the time we are ready to contend he is in his mid-30’s. Barring something dramatic, our window to win with Trout is likely shut. Best case scenario is that Arte sells. He severely limits our ability to properly rebuild the franchise for long-term success. He has to see the writing on the wall after this year. I have lived and died with this team since 1982, but it will be difficult to continue if he is still in control by end of 2024.

A Renigfo/Schanuel 1-2 punch could develop into a great table setter for the MOTO bats. I have always liked Renigfo. He has good tools and is built like a tank, but he has definitely been frustrating at times. Hope he keeps up the plate discipline and limits the mental errors on defense. The best is still in front of him. Could see .280/.360/.470 baseline in his future with 20 bombs and 15 steals. That’s a pretty valuable player, especially if he can cover multiple positions.

I’m on record as a fan of Perry until he gives me reason otherwise. No one is going to make all A+ moves, but he has done some solid things: Cut Pujols and Upton Traded for Ohoppe and Moniak. Solid early draft returns with aggressive promotions all of which have shown potential to be average+ MLB players (Neto, Schanuel, Silseth, Joyce, Bachman) Took responsibility for 2022 depth issues and addressed them head-on Did not sit idly by while injuries beset the 2023 team. Went out and got guys who had a track record of MLB experience vs relying on the Duffys, Sierras, and Rojas’ of the world. You can critique the play of those guys since joining the team, but they all looked like plus adds vs guys from the minors/waiver wire. his deadline acquisitions haven’t performed but he did display the ability to make moves in a sellers market. Quick to pivot from his own mistakes. Fletcher is a prime example of this. The waiver moves are another (although that’s complicated) 4 of the 6 moves in the 2023 offseason have been great. Anderson and Renfroe not so much, but at least he struck early with Anderson and got him for less than market value. He has done this while having a several major handicaps - multiple dead money contracts and an owner who traditionally eschews spending over the luxury tax and interferes in baseball decisions as well as an inherited farm system from Eppler that was bereft of any high end talent. Plus he has had the pressure of winning now due to having two generational talents AND doing so while a potential sale hung over the team. IMHO he is the best we have had since Stoneman.

I am more of a Perry fan than you (for now). I see these as shrewd moves that will help optimize things going forward. If the Rays or Dodgers did this, they would be lauded for their creativity. This speaks to Perry’s tendency to cut losses quickly - a great trait that we are not used to as halo fans. Unfortunately the optics around these moves are not good. That said, we are already under general scrutiny for the Ohtani situation so we might as well do what’s best for the team regardless of media blowback. If we knew more about the direction of the team next year (ownership, Ohtani, retool, etc…) it would be easier to stomach these out of the box moves. Even though this makes a lot of sense, it just exacerbates the overall chaos.

A Cubs-era Rafael Palmiero comes to mind as a comp. This team has a decent amount of power, especially if Ohtani stays and Adell develops. A good bat-to-ball, high OBP player would be most welcome at the top of the order. As a team, we need to cut down on the K’s. Schanuel could be a big step in the right direction. If only he played 3B….

“If” the UCL injury drops his AAV a bit, the marketing revenue and brand notoriety probably pays for the contract in sheer dollars and cents. The issue remains whether or not Arte will allow Perry to round out the other gaps in the roster. At best, Ohtani wouldn’t be a rotation force again until late 2025, more likely 2026. As such, you have a rotation spot to cover AND there is no incumbent ace. A lot different to cover 1-2 starter than a 3-4 starter. The good news is they have a decent collective of young MLB talent to offset the Ohtani/Rendon/Trout money. Ward coming back strong and Adell establishing himself as a capable MLB player would be a huge help

I would absolutely explore this. He would likely be cut loose as early as 2025 anyway. If he refuses, he has an obligation to go through as strenuous rehab as possible to get back on the field. Assuming Chucks report is spot-on, I am not sure why he wouldn’t entertain this. I said this in another thread, but his looming presence puts pressure on the roster management. Couple that with the hoops needed for Ohtani and it’s difficult to have the flexibility needed to construct the best possible team. Would prefer they just move on entirely. I can imagine Perry would be on board with this, not sure about Arte. I would like to see Perry turn over as many of the Eppler/Dipoto era players as possible, Trout and Ohtani excluded.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Perry does just that - at least on a limited basis. Could see him clearing the decks of the Eppler/Dipoto holdovers and reconstituting the team with guys that fit his vision. Ward is a guy that seems to lack the killer instinct but still has value from his control and production (at least pre injury). Sandoval fits that bill as well.

I wouldn’t mind moving Sandy to Baltimore. They have a bevy of position player prospects that would slot well with our current group.

Great thread! As painful and frustrating as this season has been, all the young talent on the MLB roster differentiates this era from the post 2014 teams. Whether or not it can translate to a pennant contending team remains to be seen, but you don’t have to squint too hard to see the skeleton of a solid club. We are all jaded from the losing and I think this makes us discount the positives that are there. I really like Perrys moves to this point, especially the broadening of depth across the MLB roster. With the minor league system in a rebuilding phase, it will be very important that he gets good value out of his free agency spend, especially if Ohtani comes back. Perry will need to succeed where Eppler didn’t Perhaps Perry’s best skills so far is how he a) owns and moves on quick from his own missteps (Fletcher, lack of depth in 2022), and b) makes bold, but calculated moves (Neto, O’Hoppe trade, Schanuel). We haven’t seen this level of dynamism from an Angels GM ever. I like what I see and really hope he gets the opportunity to continue beyond 2024.