ettin

1 C Hank Conger S 2 C Chris Iannetta RHH 3 1B Albert Pujols RHH 4 2B Grant Green RHH 5 SS Erick Aybar S 6 3B Luis Jimenez RHH 7 LF Mike Trout RHH 8 CF Peter Bourjos RHH 9 RF Josh Hamilton LHH 10 DH Mark Trumbo or Kole Calhoun RHH or LHH 11 SP Jered Weaver RHP 12 SP C.J. Wilson LHP 13 SP Young, high-end arm (Through trade) ? 14 SP Jason Vargas or another Trade LHP or ? 15 SP Garrett Richards RHP 16 RP Ernesto Frieri RHP 17 RP Dane De La Rosa RHP 18 RP Sean Burnett LHP 19 RP Robert Coello RHP 20 RP Michael Roth LHP 21 RP Jerome Williams RHP 22 RP Kevin Jepsen RHP 23 RP Michael Kohn or through trade RHP 24 OF J.B. Shuck or Kole Calhoun LHH 25 INF Tommy Field or Chris Nelson S or RHH This off season will really mold the look of the club, in 2014, at 2B and DH. If either Howie Kendrick or Mark Trumbo (or both!) are traded for pitching you'll see Grant Green and/or Kole Calhoun given a real opportunity to play. Additionally if Jason Vargas is re-signed that may impact whether Kendrick or Trumbo are actually traded. Kendrick is a solid 2nd baseman but we have two options now in Green and Lindsey. Also power like Trumbo's doesn't grow on trees but at the same time we may have seen the pinnacle of his ability and a more dynamic skill set, like Kole has, would probably benefit the club more than Mark's 30 HR's (up for debate but it seems true). A Kendrick trade should bring back a young, high upside rotation-ready starting pitcher. He would almost certainly be replaced by Grant Green and/or Taylor Lindsey. If Trumbo were traded he, too, would bring back a young, high upside rotation-ready starting pitcher. At that point I feel confident that Kole Calhoun would get his roster spot as a semi-regular 1B/OF/DH. If Calhoun and Green are starters then you would probably see Shuck in the reserve OF role and probably Tommy Field or Chris Nelson in the reserve INF role. Assuming those trades actually happen you'd have a sample lineup like so: Peter Bourjos Kole Calhoun Mike Trout Albert Pujols Josh Hamilton Grant Green Hank Conger Luis Jimenez Erick Aybar The rotation would be: Jered Weaver, C.J. Wilson, High-upside young SP (trade for Kendrick), Jason Vargas or another young SP (trade for Trumbo), and Garrett Richards. The bullpen would look similar to this season except Burnett would be back plus a possible RP picked up in either the Kendrick or Trumbo trade. It is also possible we sign a free agent or two and keep one or more of our younger arms with options down in the Minors as depth (very possible). There are some interesting relief arms available in free agency and that would probably be an area that we could afford to spend money on. Bottom line is that our starting pitching will only improve significantly through trades this off season. The free agent market is very weak on good ace-like starters (lots of #3-#5 types though). We don't have much cash to spend on the market and so I think one or more of Kendrick, Trumbo, and Aybar will be moved in trade between now and the start of the 2014 season.

AO, he has a good arm (~95 mph on the radar) and I think they maybe saw something they could harness. It may not happen immediately (maybe a mechanical change?) but I think they see some potential in him? I know its not translating obviously, but I happen to agree with Dipoto's philosophy about not spending an exorbent amount of money on the bullpen. Clearly we need better results but at the rate that relief pitchers arms burn out investing to much long term is a crapshoot and if you can pick up a live arm off of waivers it is worth taking a chance on if you think you can "fix" a mechanical flaw, add a new pitch, adjust their landing point, etc.

Okay fair enough. I don't think there are many, if any, on AW.com that really believes that the entirety of baseball can be reduced down to only numbers? There are too many mental nuances and "drive and the will to succeed" that add an element that can't be readily quantified. However, beyond that you can, with large samples of data, quantify Mike Trout's maximum defensive range in the outfield. You can determine how fast and how much ground he covers on an average fly ball, line drive, or grounder. You can also measure how many catches he successfully makes on a routine basis. You can plug all of this into a spreadsheet or software program and create a defensive heat map that shows both his range and ability to catch a line drive or fly ball. It could also show how quick he is with a first step and the type of routes he uses to get to those balls hit in his area of the outfield. These are all quantifiable things that can help a Major League team identify Trout's strengths and weaknesses in the field. It can also allow a General Manager and front office to design defensive arrangements. For instance if you have a hitter who has been shown to hit the ball often to left-center field, you could shift Trout slightly towards Center and have Bourjos play slightly towards right field providing "more" coverage. Those numbers may not fully encapsulate Trout's defensive ability but they can provide important information in regards to defensive shifts against each and every opposing hitter. You are right there are many fields of application where statistics are used to promote some particular point-of-view. I'm just of the opinion that baseball, generally, isn't one of those areas.

Nicely done guys!

Hmmmm..... You're right numbers do prove everything. Newton's Laws, Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, Lagrange Transformations, Basic fundamental geometry, Statistics, Calculus, etc.... Oh and the words you just wrote on the Internet are all just '0's and 1's' transmitted at the speed of light (also a number) across fiber optic cables (also manufactured and created based on mathematics). Your continuing dismissal of "numbers" is the kind of talk that would send us back to the Stone Age. As with everything else in life there is a continuing learning and development curve. Are advanced defensive metrics perfect? No, not yet. But they aren't total BS either and will continue to improve to the point that they are highly reliable. Math and Statistics are real and important. Dismissing them out of hand is irresponsible.

Sorry but you guys are assuming that the whole contract would simply be absorbed by the other team. If the Angels picked up some of that contract you could receive something of significance back. And my exact words were ".... it could help restock our farm system." Restock = replenish, i.e. to build back up. One prospect could do that. Many prospects could do that. Trading Mike to the right team (and possibly eating salary) could help the Angels restock our farm system.

Storm where did I say that our entire farm system would be replenished by the trade of one manager? I simply said that we could get one or more reasonable prospects in return if we traded him. Please reread.

Compromising pictures of Arte?

Sorry but would you expect any player to return money on their contracts? Completely unrealistic view. Not to say it hasn't happened, just unrealistic. It could happen as Rageous suggested.

There is always the possibility that S-C-I-O-S-C-I-A could be traded to another team. There are some teams that would jump at the opportunity and it could help restock our farm system. Not sure it would or could happen but maybe the team needs a new voice sending the message and maybe Mike needs to reboot his system too.

It's called recrutiment angle.

With all due respect Michifan, a majority of the world's population hold to those values so I wouldn't characterize the world as being skeptic towards those types of values. Rob Neyer is an assclown for making a slanderous statement about something he never witnessed except through heresay. Characterizing him, without knowing him, as someone who doesn't have a specific set of religious values or beliefs, making him somehow less of a person, is just about as bad as what he said about Pujols. Everyone is there own person in this life. They are free to choose their own ideals and beliefs and use them as guidance through it. We shouldn't disparage anyone, including Rob Neyer for what they may or may not believe.

Yes they should get a special one from the Angels called a dobble head.

Ahhh there is one of my die hard fans.

Oh my! What are you being charged with?

I think it depends on how much you've drank? Maybe we all need a hug?

I'll apologize too. Lately it has been very difficult to come to this board. The sh*t season (along with the other previous three) has people in a foul mood and I have found myself in an equally foul one at times. I write articles for the board and I see comments written about them that at times are legitimate and fair and at other times are just troll comments that make me wonder why I even try to start a discussion on something. E-mail and message boards aren't the best tools sometimes to communicate thought, emotion, and feeling. Sometimes we all, myself included, write a thought and it just doesn't quite come out the way we intended it too. The negativity is palpable and it is hard not to get caught up in the waves of posts about the state of the team. There is something wrong and the problem is that the 'wrong' is so spread out across the entire organization that it is difficult to pinpoint where it is we need to improve! Dipoto made a bunch of high risk moves and most of them fell through (Hanson, Madson, and Blanton), despite my belief that he is an intelligent GM with a vision of the Angels long term future. S-C-I-O-S-C-I-A, although a very capable and thoughtful MLB manager, has to take responsibility for the teams performance as the leader of this team because his message seems to be stale and his calls are sometimes questionable. The individual players have generally failed to perform to their expectations which seems to come from a lack of focus and a failure to string together good at-bats behind poor defense. My response was sharp so you have my apologies monkey. I'm in a foul mood these days. Maybe I need a break from the board.

Talking about making a mountain out of a mole hill. Okay let's go there then. If you can't get it through your brain that every team has a budget to handle and manage, you need to shut down your web site and go back and take an economics class. Money matters in Major League Baseball. Service time matters in MLB. Yes, Berg is 27 years old. Yes he has been doing fairly well in the Minors at AAA. Yes the Angels are perfectly capable of bringing him up for the cup of coffee that a lot of you are clamoring for. I really have no problems with any of these things. Why you feel the need to jump down my throat when I simply suggested that service time and budget might be a consideration is beyond me. Your tone and demeanor in your responses has an elitist edge to it that is just uncalled for especially on an issue that has very little bearing on the Angels season and probably beyond. In response to your comment about elite relievers if you go back and read my original post I never indicated that Berg was or is an elite reliever. I was merely talking generally that teams have to take service time into consideration and that you never know what player will rise to the occasion of playing at the Major League level and turn it up a notch when they reach the top. Baseball history is littered with players who were indiscernible from their peers in the Minors but then differentiated themselves after they reached the Majors. Is that Jeremy Berg? Probably not. In fact almost certainly not. Talent evaluation doesn't have to start and end in the Majors. If you don't think for a second that the Angels coaching staff knows if Berg is ready to try his hand in the Show you'd be fooling yourself. It is fun to sit back and watch a video clip of him throwing a couple of pitches down in AAA or pulling up his stat page and seeing the decent numbers in AAA and think, "Yeah we need this guy up to see what he can do for our team!", but we, as people on the outside of the organization, don't know about his makeup, his demeanor, and whether or not he truly is ready. Only the professional baseball people know that. Thanks for taking a minor comment and making it your own personal soapbox. I especially liked your belittlement of my suggestion that budget might be a concern and tossing in the "Flags Fly Forever" comment to emphasize your point. By the way have we won a f**king flag lately? Have we even gotten close? We have overspent in free agency (although we can probably afford it) and this has made budget a concern for the foreseeable future unless Arte wants to go even deeper into the well and that doesn't seem like it will happen this time around. So, yes, budget is a concern and that was my small contribution to this thread. I truly don't care if Berg is brought up or not. If he is great! If the Angels are willing to give him that chance, great! If they don't I totally understand! It's not our money right?

I think flute is trying to indirectly hint that, that is not what he had expected to see....

As a side note, the A's have used effective platoons over the last two seasons. Moss and Carter combined, last season, for 38 HR's out of the 1B position. This year John Jaso and Derek Norris have platooned at catcher. Less successfully, Chris Young and Seth Smith were platooning in the outfield (but it wasn't a bad idea). That is, in part, why the A's have done so well the last two seasons by taking strong platoon players and mixing them at a position to get strong production that most teams try to get from one single player. It is an inexpensive route to go, especially for a cash-strapped team like the Athletics (and a team like the Angels in 2014 that are dealing with large, sunk contracts).

As I mentioned in some other threads it would not surprise me if Kendrick is traded this off season and we see Chris Nelson, Luis Jimenez, Grant Green, Lindsey Taylor, and Tommy Field platooning at 3rd and 2nd base with Aybar switch-hitting at SS. You could have Jimenez in against RHP with Green in against LHP at 3rd while Taylor hits RHP and Field hits LHP at 2nd. Nelson or Green might be the odd men out unless they serve in a bench role (possibly Nelson would be out or possibly traded).

I should clarify a bit. I still think S-C-I-O-S-C-I-A is an effective manager to a degree. He did make some blundered calls this year that shined the spotlight on his managerial skills. I also think he is organized and understands the game very well compared to other managers. However the point I am trying to make is that it seems like the message that Mike is sending out has grown stale somehow. Whether it is the way Mike delivers it or some type of clubhouse chemistry issue it "feels" like the team is drifting and not maximizing its potential. Yes it could simply be player performance. I am not in the clubhouse day to day and neither are the rest of you. It could be a lot of things. Speculation and observation are all we have and it is clear that the team seems disoriented at times. Mike is the leader of this team and it is his ultimate responsibility whether it is player performance or bad leadership that is impacting our ability to win. I am all about giving people another chance. As I said Mike should have a short leash in 2014 if he is kept. If I were him I would consider upturning the apple cart in Spring Training and get the guys in as early as possible and just switch up what he has normally done and "shock" the players a little to get them focused and on point.

To be honest I really don't care personally but to suggest, as monkeywithahalo did, that service time and team budget doesn't matter because Berg is a reliever is just not realistic. Every player matters.

I'm not sure why you are so indignant on the idea that a Major League Baseball team has a budget to manage? They could call him up for the normal cup of coffee but that means he might not be on the roster to start the season. Just because he's a reliever doesn't mean that the front office doesn't want to keep him around as long as they are able too. In fact if he is that good then they DEFINITELY want to retain his services as long as possible. You never know which reliever is the next Rivera/Papelbon/Shields type that stays with the club for multiple years because they have reliable, healthy arms. In case you haven't noticed the season is over. If they call him up for a look, great! If not I TOTALLY understand and appreciate that we are saving him for the full season next year.

Considering that the budget is tight I see no reason to start his service clock, pay him the big league miinimum simply to pitch when we are out of contention. It all adds up, even the little stuff.