kevinb

Sorry if it sounded like that. I meant I would be outraged at both the city and Arte. I mean hell I would love to get a deal like that. The only reason he would get a deal like that would be he would threaten to leave the city of Anaheim and it would be a emotional reaction type of deal. In the end I would more just be pissed off at the city of Anaheim for making the deal that would cost themselves all a job and the city millions of dollars. Good for Arte if he can get that deal but I guess we will see. I hope the city of Anaheim has some brains still and doesn't get totally screwed. Other wise really the entire city council will be out of a job.

Ya definitely I just see it as the first shoe has to drop. Once we know whats happening with that huge piece of land the rest of the deals and building should and probably will commence. As of 2015 it looks like Anaheim has over 300k people living in just the city. If they build something mix used you should see that number rise and you should see the tables start getting more and more people there. I mean check out the area right down the street from the "Pond" where Tilted Kilt Chillis the movie theatre and Lazy dog, that area used to be dead and now its always packed over there. So it can happen. You just need to build it. Right next to the stadium there really isn't any place that has good parking, JT Schmidts is a pain and the Catch while its a decent location right on the corner, you can't really get there if you are just thinking of going there for food. I remember driving up on a non game day and having no clue where we were supposed to park and how to get to that location.

I agree but the deal has to be greatly beneficial to Anaheim because whatever mayor or city councilman signs off on it. If it is scene as a deal that is a hand out to Arte like this $1 deal that was supposedly on the table and Arte wanted even more than that. Than you will see outrage. Hell I live in San Clemente and I will be outraged at Arte and the Angels for completely screwing over a city. The old adage goes "Pigs get fat but Hogs get slaughtered" and it seemed from the deal that got nixed earlier was that Arte was trying to be a hog.

Agreed but like I said before MT if you build it they will come. I mean think about Irvine for a second. I am not sure if you lived here when they build the beginning of the Spectrum but it was just a movie theatre and then it had Fox Sports. There were office buildings around but people weren't just meeting up at the Spectrum like they are now. If you built a similar situation like the Spectrum in Anaheim rent would be cheaper, not by much, and home prices are generally cheaper than Irvine and OC is dying for a high rise city kind of place to live and to be able to walk around. I live in San Clemente right now for example and I am dreading the suburb kind of area I live in. I would love to still live in OC but also have that kind of city feel. I am telling you right now watch out for Santa Ana in the next 5 to 10 years. They are doing a lot of things in that area.

I am really curious to see how the LA Rams do what they are doing in LA. I believe they are doing mix used stuff and the stadium and night life etc around it. I think if the Rams can do something that will be a center in LA that, thats something you can see the Angels do in Anaheim. But again I believe Kroenke is doing a lot of that stuff with out the city having to pay out a bunch. I am curious to see where the Dodgers go from the Ravine I don't believe they are longed for that area.

I doubt that land would be a parking structure. I think disney is building more parking structures around Disneyland. How it was said to me was that if Disney bought that land it would be another park. Where you would make Anaheim more and more like Orlando and it would be an Epcot something something theme park kind of thing. Which Disney would rake it in.

Malls are going bad because the mall itself is paying for upkeep and paying for air-conditioning through out and land costs. I don't know the retail market but from the friends I have who are GMs of big company stores. It seems across the board that stores are down 10 percent or more in store fronts. Online shopping has done a huge number on these store fronts. A mix used retail, dining, night life with condos, townhouses and apartments is where its at. You have a built in audience. See how the Irvine Company has worked the Irvine Spectrum and their apartments. Spectrum is packed every day, I worked right down the street and used to live in those apartments, and they are just adding more and more apartments by the day. When I lived there they were first being built or finishing their first phase of around 2000 units. Then they built another 2000 behind it and right now they are building another or it is already done I haven't gone over there in a little bit another 2000 units plus. If you build in an audience like they have done whats the reason to leave if you have all the shopping, restaurants and night life. You keep all that revenue in house.

So in my understanding of the city of Anaheim from talking with people who have worked with them in the past and in our business dealings with them is that the city of Anaheim are pain in the asses to deal with. Going years back to when my father would deal with them they have been just super difficult to deal with, with getting paper worked filed etc etc. I grew up in South Orange County so I didn't grow up around Anaheim and I think the perceived safety issue in Anaheim compared to that of Southern OC like Irvine is just that perceived. The problem is everyone wants to live in South OC right? But not everyone can afford it so a lot of people recently have been moving to Santa Ana and also moving out of OC and still going to work in OC. They are moving to Riverside counties or just north OC and traveling for work. The way I see it is if you can build something similar to what is going on in Costa Mesa right now with the high rises and townhouses etc in Anaheim I don't see why people wouldn't flock to it. Especially lower income which really is 500k townhouse lower income? But you can change the identity of the city with that kind of stuff. You still get the Area and zip code that people are buying. You are living in OC and that has a higher price tag than say a North San Diego or a Riverside just to be able to say OC. As for the buildings around it, why things haven't been built is everyone is kind of waiting for the first shoe to drop. Whether the city of Anaheim caves into Artes demands, what is happening with the lease. Are the Angels staying or going. I think until we know the answers to those questions we are kind of in a standstill. I mean if I owned some of that land I would be holding off as well. Say the Angels stay ok so what does that look like, are they building a new stadium are funds going to be given out like Arte would be getting in a deal, so are developers waiting for a handout as well to build something. If Arte is leaving what are they going to do with the land. Is Disney coming in? Is there going to be just a mass land sale to developers what does the city see for that site. Where can I get mine back. Are we going to over saturate or under saturate the market. I really think the first shoe to drop is going to be whats going on with Arte and the Angels once they know whats going to be going on there for the next 10 years then people will start building like crazy. Interest rates are low, occupancy is nation wide highs through out Orange County, like I said in a previous post the average occupancy in OC is around 95-98% if not higher. Thats not just certain cities thats everywhere. We own properties through out Orange County and up in Ventura Camarillo areas and we are on waiting lists at 98-100% constantly. Sorry to drag on and on about this

I am not sure it has an effect in reality but a perceived effect. I am sure they aren't thrilled about it but it really doesn't affect the cities annual income. It is something that they can say in the media to get the residents of Anaheim behind them over Arte which could be beneficial long term for the city and could hurt Arte in the media.

I am just looking for a board like Pujols in the outfield for the number of loses in a row. Maybe we should be lighting the Halo up on each of these loses. Do we get even to the record or even break the losing streak record. Whats the major league record for losing consecutive games in a row. Can we make this happen? Is this something to celebrate

Exactly which Disney has a track record and has a high economic foot print with jobs, income, sales tax and brings in more revenue for the city of Anaheim than the Angels could even dream of. Which is understandable because Disney is open 365 days a year and Angels stadium is open 81 days a year. Sorry for rambling this is what I do I am very passionate about it.

Not to beat a dead horse but worst case scenario for the fans is you lose the Angels to say LA or whatever city. You build a triangle square, LA Live, Irvine Spectrum etc metro center in that area. You build town homes, luxury apartments, high rise condos, business center buildings etc. with a mix used built in to it. Where theres shopping, night life, restaurants, bars a music venue right there etc etc. And you say conservatively which I believe last I checked per acre you can build 50 plus apartment units on a per acre usage. So even if we go on the low side of 75 acres thats 3000 apartments condos and high rise to be sold off. You get the average price of about 500k if not more with all that infrastructure and you have just increased your revenue ten fold. yearly with land costs, property tax, sales tax etc etc. And now Anaheim is rolling in cash.

The land thats not under control of Arte they can sell off if they haven't already. But making a deal just to make a deal isn't smart business for the city. There really is no other forms of making a huge profit as a city then selling a huge piece of land like this. I am not sure what else Anaheim owns in its city right now but lets say that for estimate purposes that land is 75 acres. Thats 5 or 6 million dollars per acre for multi family use. Just off the top at the low end of 5 million its 375 million dollars to the city than on top of that its a 1% or just over 1% tax yearly not to mention everything else on top of that. Now if you do it the other way and Anaheim forks over a piece of land for $1 thats worth a roughly 375 million dollar piece of land do you know what the 1% value of that is? About squat so not only do they lose out on a ton of money and yearly revenue they have basically been bent over and cost their residents money. Think of the kind of programs and infrastructure the city of Anaheim could do with that kind of added income yearly. That you just cost your city because you wanted to keep a sports franchise in your city.

Agreed but the city would be wise to wait it out. There is no point in signing a deal now when its not going to be beneficial. Look at all the revenue they would lose out on just to make someone who "doesn't" want to be here and who brings really nothing to the table except the Angels. Again I am going to restate this its really 81 games a year at Angels stadium the rest of the time it isn't producing any income what so ever. If Anaheim sells off the land and they develop it whether the Angels stadium or a Disney or just a metro center like LA Live was there you could produce a ton of money. But no way in the world should anyone just be given that land to develop. I don't care if its Disney Arte or Joe Shmoe thats too much money to take off the table.

Honestly Strad no offense but you don't know what you are talking about with this real estate stuff. The better deal for the city of Anaheim which is a bunch of buffoons but thats neither here nor there is to sell the land and have a private entity develop the land. You would get real estate tax which is just over 1 percent on how ever many acres that is on 5 to 6 million dollars per acre. Plus development fees plus sales tax and land costs more labor jobs etc. Which helps the economy. Giving Arte the land for free so he can profit off of it is absolute insanity and what ever city official signs off on it will be out of the city council so fast it will make his head spin.

If Arte gets to develop the land tho he must pay for it. He doesn't get the land for free that's where I think the issue is. He can afford it. Multi family land in Orange County is going for around 5-6 million dollars an acre. If you think giving him I don't know how many acres it is for free or for the alleged $1 fee is acceptable to the city your out of your minutes crazy. That's a ton of revenue just right on the land sale alone let alone everything else

They aren't but that's not what we're talking about. The new deals that owners of sports franchises are getting are the citizens of the cities are having the foot huge bills. It only matters if a new stadium deal is in place right now it's status quo and nothing is being done. Till there is a new deal in place and that's where the residents of Anaheim could pay a huge fee

Agreed. Also I do not think the Angels and Arte will meet somewhere in the middle. I think if Anaheim was smart they would say this is our deal you can build your own stadium on this land. And the rest of it will be sold off or when your lease is up all the land will be sold off as a huge chunk or in parcels to the highest bidder and we will go from there.

There's really not a shortage of residents to rent or buy in Orange County. Irvine company continues to build massive apartment structures in Irvine. Look at even north Irvine Costa Mesa area the newer high rise condos. There's really not any night life even there just a bunch of business areas and you have town homes and high rise condos selling upwards of 2 or 3 million dollars each. If you created a huge mixed use area where Angels Stadium sits it would be a home run .

Even if those sales were down, if you created a center there with night life mixed use shopping think Irvine spectrum times 2 or 3 the sales would be better instead of well were right next to a stadium that's only used 81 days out of the year

Hmm I thought Chuck was saying from his sources or what not that Arte was the one who spearheaded the Hamilton and Pujols deals?

I'm not saying it's his fault his elbow snapped. My theory when I read the article that week one Richards was throwing 100 mph that he was gonna have his elbow explode before the end of the year. And as a manager if you see someone come in that hot in camp you need to shut him down or you need to tell him to slow your role. It's a long season and no one other than Nolan could probably throw 100 year round. Richards just like anyone else has to warm into that stuff. Just my opinion but ya

Agreed it's on Jerry but my only thought is we don't know if it's being influenced from the top down and that might have been a reason for the departure like he did. It could be simply making assumptions but in my head it was somewhere in the middle of he was tired of being "bullied" into making deals he didn't want and was no longer wanting to be the middle man. And saw that he was gonna be let go at the end of the year with all the "fighting" internally so decided to bail early

I would really like to know how Mike deals with the offseason plans and if it's on him or if it's on the GM. There's one thing I put on Mike this off season and that's Richards injury. Whatever he told him and then seeing him come to camp that hot he should have put him on the bench and slowed him down. You can't let a pitcher do that in spring training and that's something a manager can have a huge impact on.

I agree it's a bad trade but really in hindsight it seems they were in the win now mentality and we will never know if that is on Arte pushing for it that way. I also wonder how much influence Pujols had on trying to get one of "his" guys here from St Louis and having the influence and relationship with Arte if that was something or if it's just something from an outside looking in it seemed like. Again I disliked the trade but there are a ton of factors that go into it. And I think the big issue is Arte and his win now mentality rather than build for future success and long term sustainability. But I guess time will tell on that one.