Dave Saltzer

I love stories like this.  Instantly on the radar in terms of guys I'm excited to follow. 

Doc, did you see my interview with Jonathan Van Eaton? Another great story like this. And, Van Eaton is a reliever who could move quickly in the system. Keep him on your radar too.

I'm excited to see Monster in action.

Chuck is right. I have talked with several scouts from other clubs and none of them saw Bourjos as equal to the value of a starting pitcher of the caliber that we would want/need. It's unfortunate, but, a reality. So, filling what would have been a terrible void at 3B into a serviceable solution (with a potential upside depending on the return to health) was a good use for Bourjos. I'm a bit more upset about losing Grichuk, but, I understand why an opposing GM would want him in the deal as insurance against the perceived injury status of Bourjos. 

Ettin, three things for you to consider:

1) In your analysis of the trade you didn't include the WAR from Calhoun. By trading Bourjos, we gain the value of Calhoun. Factor that into the trade and the value of the trade becomes better.

2) If we had kept Bourjos, he would not have played much, meaning that we could not have built up his trade value. We can't field a team with 4 OFers, a DH, and no 3B. The Angels would have started Calhoun over him at this point. So, the longer we waited, the less value Bourjos would have, making a trade even less likely. And, any playing time he would have would come at the expense of Calhoun, reducing his contributions to the team.

3) There is value in spreading the contributions to the team around the entire lineup, not just bunching it up in areas. That's because all players will go through slumps and streaks. By spreading the offense around, it makes it less likely that they all go through slumps and streaks at the same time. Prior to the trade, 3B would have been pretty much been a lost cause for the team. Our solutions at the time were far below replacement level. Now we are more likely to get production from that area, which will improve the team overall.

I'm not out jumping up and down calling this a great deal for the team. But, I'm not upset as a fan about it (although as I have said before, I'm more personally upset with losing two of the guys I liked the most in the organization). I recognize why it had to be done and believe we got about as much as we could for Bourjos based on what the trade market would bring. I think the team after the trade is better than the team was before the trade.

Aren't we supposed to wait and see how it pans out over time?

We should be, but too many on here aren't.

So is the consensus around here that Dipoto should be fired? Or are we back to liking him as the GM?

Here's something else to consider when evaluating this trade. The 3B market is very thin, especially in the FA arena (were we seriously thinking of paying Chavez about $3 million to platoon and hope that he was healthy????). With Afraud acting like Afraud in his appeal, the Yankees are starting to really look into the 3B market as well. The only two 3B that I am aware of via trade were Middlebrooks and Freese. I'd much rather have Freese over Middlebrooks and I'd much rather deal with STL than Boston. I'm betting some of the increase and need to get this deal done now may have been to edge out the Yankees so that they have to delve into the FA market since Boston most likely won't trade with them at all. The timing of this deal and the inclusion of Grichuk seems to indicate we had to edge out another club.

I still see this as a move that stabilizes a position. I was not sold on Jimenez at 3B. His defense is there, but the bat is too streaky and a bit too exposed for the Majors. Sure, it doesn't solve our pitching needs, but it does improve a position that's been a hole for us for a while. Freese is better than Callaspo (even last year), costs less, and has the potential for a bounce-back to be much better than whatever we otherwise could have put at the position.

In a nutshell, this is exactly how I view this trade today.

This is where I am today, although I am a little bit more upset about losing Grichuk.

Okay Dave I see where you are coming from.

 

I mentioned earlier in a different response to another poster that perhaps this is a move towards pacifying Trout and if it is I sincerely hope we sign him to a long-term extension soon.

 

As far as insurance at 1B, Calhoun did play a bit there in the Minors but I never heard how he panned out. Beyond that Efren Navarro is high on the depth chart so although Trumbo would be a solid backup there are others available.

 

I guess my main problem is that Bourjos plays the more demanding defensive position better than Freese plays the less-demanding defensive position. Both of them provide different kinds of offensive output that, when you sum it all up, is not that entirely different with Freese getting the slight edge. Bourjos will cost less total dollars in salary and is controlled one year longer.

 

So for me it is Bourjos >> Freese. Then there is the Salas/Grichuk swap which again doesn't totally make sense from a value perspective but does from a depth perspective.

I am, of course, a Bourjos fan and I do agree that we have added to a position of weakness on our team at 3B but I feel we gave up too much to obtain that incremental upgrade. I hope that it works out for us in the long run.

 

Thanks for the clarification Dave!

Ettin,

The Grichuk for Salas part had me a bit bothered too. That's why I'm not totally in favor of it. However, from the STL side, I can see them thinking that they are taking on more risk in Borjous because he has had more seasons with injuries. So, they wanted to get more from a prospect who would give them OF depth. Bourjos and Grichuk is way too much for Freese alone, so, we got back a RP to balance it all out.

So, just wondering again from all those who think that we should have kept Bourjos to "increase his value", how exactly would that happen? With Calhoun and Shuck here, both would cut into Borjous's playing time, making it even more clear that he was a 4th OFer. 

Again, not necessarily a great deal, but could be the first step in several trades. Give it time to see how the whole thing plays out.

I have a question for all those who are opposed to this deal: Can I find a post from you talking about playing Trout in CF instead of Bourjos? Remember the whole controversy about displacing Trout from CF, his preferred position? If you think/thought Trout should go back to CF, most of your rage on this deal is deflated because the best part of Bourjos' value was tied to his defense in CF. If he's not in CF, then his value is diminished. 

I am a big fan of both Peter Bourjos and Grichuk. Really like both guys, and have known them since they first came into our system. I had a sneaky suspicion that Grichuk would be included in this deal. On a personal note, I will be sad to see them playing elsewhere, although I am happy that they are going to a good organization.

However, I am a bigger fan of the ANGELS. I want to see the Angels win over any one player.

I will hold off on evaluating this trade until I see all the moves that Dipoto makes. As Chuck has argued, this move frees up a potential Aybar/Kendrick/Trumbo move to get pitching. I hope Freese bounces back, but also see him as a placeholder until Cowart develops.

Unlike some, I am not going to go into a fullblown panic over the move until I see the whole picture. I see this as the first step in a sequence of moves. Give it some time and have patience.

I really enjoyed this article Jess. Good job! We definitely need more articles like this around here just to keep the mood up.

I would actually be torn to see Trumbo go in a trade. I think he still has more that he can do with the bat and would like to see him show it locally. He signed my eldest son's first autograph, so my boys will miss him. And, we went to the same high school (although years apart) so, he has some significance to me.

For me, it would all depend on the haul we got for him. Unlike many, I do not underestimate his value (never did, going back all the way when we ranked him highly as a prospect when so many did not). But, winning cures everything g and if we get some of the pitching that we desperately need to make the post season, I would reluctantly do the trade.

Thanks guys. It was really nice eyeing how involved the Angels players got and how much fun they made it for the players.

In +1.

I did find the very specific numbers interesting, which is why I included the whole series in my summary. Remember, in Baylor's MVP season, he had more walks than KS.

You can see a lot of the direct quotes that I referenced in my summary of thoughts n Baylor in this article. It's interesting to see how different people can hear the same press conference and summarize it differently. However, I think Digi and I got the same points across.

I just had another thought: Baylor was asked if he had had much contact with Dipoto since Dipoto played for him or since they were together in AZ. Baylor said no, they hadn't except when Dipoto called him for about something concerning his church. That would lead me to believe that faith is important to Baylor. Knowing that Hamilton is a man of faith, as is Albert Pujols, I think that this will further help him connect with those two players, inspire them, and get them going offensively.

I attended the telephone conference. I just didn't have he time to get something out and be accurate with the quotes. The beat writers will all do that, but I wanted to give our fans some quick takes on it with my thoughts.

See my notes in the other thread for more thoughts and comments on the press conference today.

I am beginning to think that Scioscia is starting to regain his power and influence. Not good.

I would disagree with that. I think that Dipoto was able to get his guy and it worked well because Scioscia and Baylor have a good relationship from working together for 8 years on raising money for cystic fibrosis (which is a very worthwhile activity--a truly horrid disease that I wish were cured as a good friend has a son with it). 

I think the more interesting thing will be how Baylor works with Trumbo and Hamilton to retain their power AND cut down on their strikeouts.

Here are some of my thoughts on the Don Baylor signing as the new hitting coach:

*Don Baylor brings a presence to the Angels that has been missing, especially with loss of Torii Hunter. The 2013 team lacked a real identity, and as a result, never really gelled until that late run in August/September. In the press conference with Mike Scioscia and Don Baylor, Mike Scioscia talked about the presence that Baylor would bring, and how much respect people in the game have for him. For that reason alone, I like the signing.

* When asked about areas that the Angels need to improve, Baylor talked about getting the team out of the gate better. He has talked with Mike Scioscia about that and what changes need to happen in Spring Training in order for this to occur. Over the past 4 years, the Angels have not been well above .500 on June 1st. They need to change that. As fans, we know that games early in the season count as much as games late in the season in the standings, and I'm hoping to see an end to that streak.

*Don Baylor is not going to be the manager. In the press conference, he made that clear, saying "I am a coach, not a manager on his [Mike Scioscia's] club". All those of you who think he's gunning for a managerial job or anything else are misreading the tea leaves.

*Don Baylor is excited and happy to be back home, with the Angels. Several times in the press conference he talked about wanting to be back in Anaheim (he lives locally), the fond memories he has with the team, the relationships he has with some people (which includes Mike Scioscia through their work together raising money for cystic fibrosis). I always want a player/coach/manager who wants to be here. He said he jumped at the opportunity to be here. He said he could have waited to see what managerial jobs would have opened up after the World Series, but wanted this one and took it. It wasn't an issue of years as to why he left AZ (he has a 2-year deal here, which was the same as in AZ).

*Don Baylor's hitting philosophy is about putting the ball in play, hitting up the middle, and making things happen. He does not like strikeouts, and specifically talked about guys thinking it's okay to strike out "100. 110, 120, 130 times". He wants to put the ball in play, get runners on the move, and making things happen. He said that most pitchers today "pitch away" but that our hitters will "get their opportunities to turn on an inside pitch."

*Regarding Mike Trout, Baylor remembers him from the Futures Game, when Trout was the youngest player on the team. He said "I've got to get him in there." He took notes on Trout and thinks that any club that has him is lucky.

*Regarding Josh Hamilton, Baylor believes that he is a key to the offense and will be working with him. He knows and has seen what Hamilton can do when he gets his swing going, and he will be working with him. 

*Baylor's coaching style seems flexible to the player. He will try things for a while, but won't keep pounding the same things over and over if it's not working.

*Baylor will be contacting the players in the offseason to introduce himself and go over some things and will be reviewing tape of when things were going well for players in order to get ready for Spring Training.

*Baylor and Scioscia have a good relationship that they've built both on and off the field. Baylor will be a sounding board for Scioscia, which I think will help Scioscia be more successful.

*Baylor is very respectful. When talking about how excited he was to be back, he talked about how it was as exciting as when he was brought over with Grich and others by "Mr. Autry". I really appreciate a man, even at his age, still being appropriate like that. Far too many people forget that, and it shows the type of man, character, and respect that Baylor has.

*The funniest thing was when Baylor was talking about negotiating with his former closer who is now the GM of the team. That must have been an interesting conversation. However, Baylor was Dipoto's pick in both Arizona and now with the Angels. I think this shows that Dipoto's influence on the team is growing and will be more apparent this year.

All-in-all, I'm very excited about this signing. I really like that Baylor wants to be here and the presence that he will bring. He's connected to the community and is highly regarded by players throughout the game. I'm eager to see what he can do to straighten the offense out so that we do get out of the gate better and that turn it around in 2014. This team does not need a major overhaul, and with some tweaking should contend next year.

I voted for him, Morin, and the Epic game against Lancaster. I stayed up way too late listening to it, and loved EVERY minute of it.

With fans like this . . . 

http://kearth101.cbslocal.com/2013/09/27/woman-snatches-foul-ball-from-little-girl/

Ouch!

That was without a doubt, one of the best games I ever listened to, outside of the 2002 World Series run. Amazing game! Those guys fought as hard as any team that I can recall. They should all be proud of themselves and what they accomplished. Sam Farber did a GREAT job calling it. By the end, you could hear it taking a toll on his voice, but when they won it, the passion was amazing!

Food and non alcoholic beverages will be provided. That's nibbling. I hope that we can bring a good turnout to support this. There's no game to go to, so what a great way to spend a Thursday night.

Calhoun has been one of those guys that have made the end to this season interesting for me. Having watched him develop in the Minor Leagues, it is particularly fun to see him showoff his skills at the Major League level. He should be a starter next year or a very regular bench player. I am glad w were able to have him come out for our Spring Training Fanfest and so many fans got to meet him.